Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Hello, I’m Michael Liebreich, and this is Cleaning Up.I hope you are having a good break over the holiday season, and getting to spend some quality time with your family. I’m in Switzerland, where it has just snowed about a meter in 24 hours.In case you’re missing your regular dose of climate content, we’re starting something new, which we’re calling Cleaning Up Redux. During the break between seasons, we’ll be republishing some gems from our back catalogue, which now covers nearly 200 episodes.To kick us off, today we’ll be listening back to episode 68, from Season 4, released in December 2021. It’s a conversation with Amory Lovins, whom I dubbed the Einstein of Energy Efficiency. Amory is the co-founder and former chairman and chief scientist of the Rocky Mountain Institute. He is also the author of more than 30 books and 700 papers, and now an Adjunct Lecturer in Atmosphere and Energy at Stanford University.I first became familiar with Amory’s work even before I founded New Energy Finance journey, as a fierce promoter of the cause of energy efficiency by design, and equally fierce opponent of the idea of any role for nuclear power. Amory and I do not see eye to eye on everything, but we have become good friends and occasional sparring partners.Amory joined me on Cleaning from his passive house high up in the Rocky Mountains, which is so warm despite not having any active heating that, at the time of recording, he had produced 78 crops of indoor bananas – a fact of which he is rightly proud.The reason I chose this episode to kick off Cleaning Up Redux is that, in these very turbulent and politicised times, it has a refreshing back-to-basics feel. If you can save energy you save money, and that is always a good thing. If we all focused more on making clean energy cheaper for consumers and businesses, and a bit less on persuading politicians to do things that drive up energy costs, the transition might be moving a lot faster.I hope you enjoy my December 2021 conversation with Amory Lovins.Further reading: IEA Energy Efficiency 2021 report: https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-efficiency-2021 Official bio: https://rmi.org/people/amory-lovins/ How Big Is the Energy Efficiency Resource? (a half-hour summary talk is at https://energy.stanford.edu/events/special-energy-seminar-amory-lovins-holmes-hummel) https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/aad965 Recalibrating Climate Prospects https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/ab55ab Can a Virus and Viral Ideas Speed the World’s Journey Beyond Fossil Fuels? (with Kingsmill Bond) https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/abc3f2 SAE: Reframing Automotive Fuel Efficiency https://doi.org/10.4271/13-01-01-0004

Are we losing the argument that climate change requires action and investment? Can we balance the need for affordable energy with the costs of decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors like steel, cement and aviation? And how can we counter the spread of misinformation and populist narratives that undermine support for clean energy? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Lord Adair Turner for a deep dive into the state of the energy transition at the end of 2024. They discuss the remarkable progress in technologies like solar, batteries and electrification, but also the political and economic challenges of driving rapid decarbonisation. Turner shares his optimism that we have the technologies to reach net zero by 2070-2080, but also his concern that the pace of change may not be fast enough to avoid significant warming. They explore issues like the role of nuclear power, the need for grid investment, and the complexities of climate finance and international cooperation. This episode grapples with the tension between technological progress and political realities - and how to navigate that divide to accelerate the transition to a sustainable, zero-carbon future as we move into the new year. Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and moreAdair's book, Just CapitalThe Energy Transitions Commission: https://www.energy-transitions.orgHow China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun The Einstein of Energy Efficiency - Ep68: Amory LovinsThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future - Ep173: Jenny Chase⁠Can Exponential Growth Save a Finite Planet? - Ep187: Azeem Azhar The UK Energy Company Creating the Utility of the Future - Ep175: Greg Jackson The Bridgetown Initiator - Ep145: Prof Avinash PersaudHow To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall Is It Ever OK to Promote Fossil Fuels? TNO's Hydrogen Insights

Climate philanthropies are playing an increasingly important role in funding climate action. In 2023, an estimated $9-16 billion was spent by philanthropies on programs to mitigate climate change. But how do they choose how to spend it? And what role should philanthropy play in catalysing innovation? Bryony Worthington sits down with Greg de Temmerman, Deputy CEO of the Quadrature Climate Foundation, to explore these critical questions. As a former plasma physicist who worked on the world's largest nuclear fusion project before transitioning into philanthropy, Greg brings a unique perspective to the climate challenge. Greg shares his insights on the progress and challenges in fusion research, highlighting the importance of material science breakthroughs and the role of AI in advancing the field. He then discusses his transition from research to the think tank world, where he sought to provide a more science-based approach to climate solutions and address the growing anti-tech sentiment in France. The conversation delves into Quadrature's evidence-based, pragmatic approach to philanthropy, and Greg's views on the foundation's support for geoengineering research and carbon removal technologies. He emphasises the need to grapple with the complexities of the energy transition, including the social and political challenges of managing winners and losers, and explains why he thinks the climate fight is like ultra-running. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links: Quadrature Climate FoundationKelly Wanser on Geoengineering Anand Gopal on Thermal Storage and Carbon Removal

What was achieved at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan? Where will the promised $300 billion come from, and how will it be spent? And what reforms are needed to make the COP process more effective and impactful? This week, host Michael Liebreich sits down with James Cameron, an international climate lawyer who has been involved with the COP process since before COPs were COPs. James shares his insights into the challenges and dynamics of these high-stakes global talks, from the crucial role of small island states to the difficulties of bridging the divide between developed and developing nations. James and Michael explore the inner workings of the COP process - its successes, failures and the urgent need for reform. James provides a clear-eyed assessment of where the negotiations have fallen short, and outlines concrete ideas for how to make the COP a more effective forum for driving real-world climate action. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links:Ya Basta: Stop the UN Climate Charade - https://www.liebreich.com/214-2/ James' previous appearance on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7GKiW5E4k Christiana Figueres on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YSzUJ_nMV0 Catherine McKenna on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEP1SGL-DcA Amber Rudd on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZOokwqLaRc Laurence Tubiana on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpVmECce7R8

As we race towards a future powered by AI and data centres, how will the insatiable demand for energy impact the environment? With the richest companies ploughing billions into energy generation, might there be some unexpected upsides for the climate transition? And can exponential technologies address the climate crisis on a finite planet? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, to explore the complex relationship between exponential growth, climate change, and the societal implications of transformative technologies. Michael and Azeem delve into the promises and pitfalls of a future shaped by the rapid advancements in renewable energy, battery storage, and artificial intelligence.Exponential View: Listeners of Cleaning Up can receive one year of complimentary access to Exponential View Premium, visit: https://www.exponentialview.co/cleaningup. Offer valid for 7 days starting November 27, 2024. Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Links:Azeem's websiteThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future | Ep173: Jenny Chase Battery Recycling Is Here - But Where Are The Batteries? - Ep165: Hans Eric Melin Separating Hype from Hydrogen – Part One: The Supply Side - Audioblog 3Separating Hype from Hydrogen – Part Two: The Demand Side - Audioblog 4Inside the World's Largest AI Supercluster xAI ColossusAI's $600bn problem

How can behavioural science and psychology be leveraged to drive meaningful change around climate action? What unintended consequences might arise from heavy-handed government mandates versus more subtle interventions? And in the face of the climate crisis, is it ethical to actively promote the use of fossil fuels? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael welcomes Ogilvy UK Vice-chair Rory Sutherland to explore the role of psychology and behavioural science in tackling the climate challenge. Rather than relying solely on policy, regulations, and technological solutions, Sutherland argues that understanding human decision-making and tapping into our innate psychological drivers could be key to catalyzing widespread behaviour change. From the power of "satisficing" and "psycho-physics" to the importance of signaling and subconscious hacking, Sutherland delves into the hidden forces that shape our environmental choices - both for better and for worse. The conversation also grapples with the ethical quandary of whether actively promoting fossil fuels is justifiable, even as a "messy intermediate phase" in the transition to clean energy. This episode challenges viewers to think beyond the conventional approaches to climate action and consider how a deeper understanding of human psychology could unlock more effective, and even counterintuitive, solutions. For those interested in data on which advertising groups continue to work with fossil fuel companies, please see: https://cleancreatives.org/f-list. Asked about WPP (Ogilvy’s Parent Company) and Ogilvy’s inclusion on the F-list, WPP commented: "WPP and Ogilvy have not commented publicly on the accuracy or validity of the F-List’s research. However, several of the contracts named on the F-List are wrongly attributed to Ogilvy. They are in fact relationships with an entirely different agency, OGR, formerly known as Ogilvy Government Relations. Other than ownership by WPP, OGR has had no connection to Ogilvy since 2011 and they rebranded last year to avoid historical confusion." Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links: Rory’s book, AlchemyOgilvy UK: https://www.ogilvy.com/ukHow Lily Cole Models Climate Solutions | Ep161 How To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall

Is China's lead in clean technologies insurmountable? How will the Trump presidency shape relations with China? And when will China's emissions peak? Fatih Birol, head of the International Energy Agency, has said that 'almost every energy story is essentially a China story. But it's a complicated story that has been powered by vast supplies of coal. China's economy has grown rapidly, with per capita levels of energy consumption now matching Europe's, making it the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gasses. At the same time, China has increased the share of electricity and total energy to around 28% thanks to a rapid uptake of electric vehicles and increasing use of electricity for heating domestically. If it continues on its current trajectory, it is likely to peak its greenhouse gas emissions from energy in the next few years, if it hasn't done so already. China is also playing an increasing role beyond its borders: In 2023, 20% of the global EV export market belong to China, and it dominates the battery, solar and wind industries. This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Professor Qi Ye, Director of Public Policy at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, who's had a ringside seat during China's rapid shift towards a clean energy economy. Together they unpack the complex dynamics shaping the global energy transition in China. Discover the remarkable scale and pace of China's clean energy transformation, the challenges of international collaboration, and Professor Qi's vision for a new era of climate leadership.Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.Links: How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma JunThe World's Preeminent Energy Economist - Ep133: Fatih BirolHow Trump & Musk Will Reshape US Climate Action — Election Special

How will the Trump administration's policies impact the clean energy transition in the United States? What will be Elon Musk's role in shaping climate policy? And what are the geopolitical implications of the US withdrawing from the Paris Agreement? In this special episode of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the implications of the recent US election results and the potential impact on energy and climate policy. They explore the likely policy changes under a Trump administration, including potential cuts to clean technologies like offshore wind and electric vehicles, as well as the potential for increased fossil fuel production and the relaxation of environmental regulations. Bryony shares her insights from her recent trip to China, where the expectation was that Trump would win and the general sentiment was that China could do business with him. Michael examines the perceived lack of a coherent strategy in Europe to compete with the US and China in the clean energy and technology sectors.Leadership CircleCleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and moreHow To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall Could Trump 2.0 Roll Back The IRA? Ep181: Ethan Zindler

Could we save billions by simply reducing energy waste? How can we power the vast, energy-hungry growth of AI without sacrificing climate goals? And is Europe doomed to high energy costs and deindustrialisation? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Jonathan Maxwell, CEO and founder of Sustainable Development Capital LLP (SDCL), for the third time on Cleaning Up. Jonathan shares his perspective on the urgent need to address energy efficiency and waste, drawing from the themes explored in his book "The Edge." Jonathan and Michael delve into SDCL's innovative approach to providing on-site energy solutions that deliver cheaper, cleaner, and more reliable power to businesses, industries, and public institutions. Jonathan explains how their focus on distributed generation and decentralised energy systems is transforming the way organisations think about and manage their energy needs. Finally, policy. Jonathan and Michael discuss the impact of the Inflation Reduction Act in the US (and the potential turmoil from recent election results), the European Union's Green Deal, how these initiatives can be further strengthened by a greater emphasis on energy efficiency and productivity, and what the West needs to catch China. Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live LinksCheaper, Cleaner, More Reliable - Ep14: Jonathan Maxwell Checkpoint 2023: Energy Efficiency Investment - Ep113 Jonathan Maxwell How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma JunMetals Refining - From Mining to Brining: Ep 142 - Alex Grant

How difficult is it to power a boat just with electricity? Is an electric outboard as reliable as a fossil-fuel one when taken out to sea? And just how much better is an electric engine for reducing pollution and noise? Around the world there are tens of millions of small boats, from high-performance luxury craft to workhorse fishing vessels, nearly all of which run on fossil-fuel powered engines. But with the rapid advancements in electric vehicles, a small group of companies are now turning their minds to cracking the boating problem, inventing electric engines that are quieter, less polluting, and can deliver just the same performance. In Europe, perhaps the best known is the German company Torqeedo. Founded in 2004, they've sold a quarter of a million electric motors to date, and this year, were acquired by Yamaha Motors. Norwegian company Evoy have recently joined forces with Vita, a UK-Monaco based company, and Candela, another Scandinavian boat builder, are revolutionising engines and boats with their hydrofoiling concept. This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington speaks with Ben Sorkin, CEO and co-founder of Flux Marine, headquartered in Newport, Rhode Island. Flux Marine are hoping to take on the US market with their customizable electric propulsion systems and have a 40,000 square foot factory in Rhode Island. Bryony asks Ben how his electric engines compete on cost and performance, what Flux Marine’s scale-up plans are, and why it’s so much harder to electrify a boat than a car. Leadership CircleCleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live LinksFlux Marine: https://www.fluxmarine.com Is Shipping the Easiest "Hard-to-Abate" Sector? — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umPAonV20cM Arc Boats: https://arcboats.com Candela Hydrofoiling Boats: https://candela.com

Is the shift to electric vehicles really slowing down? Are people losing interest in EVs, or is there more to the story? How will changes in the global automotive industry impact the net-zero transition? And If no one wants EVs, why do we need tariffs? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Colin McKerracher, Head of Clean Transport at BloombergNEF, to unpack the latest trends and dynamics in the electric vehicle market from cars to trucks to two wheelers. They dive deep into the regional differences, the strategies of European automakers, the impact of tariffs, as well as the latest forecasts and predictions in BloombergNEF's Electric Vehicle Outlook.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.liveLinks:BloombergNEF's Electric Vehicle Outlook: https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/The Debunker-in-Chief - Ep15: Auke HoekstraThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future - Ep 173: Jenny ChaseSlowdown, what Slowdown? The EV Revolution is Just Getting Started - Ep178: Dr Andy PalmerCould Trump 2.0 Roll Back The IRA? Ep181: Ethan Zindler

China has taken a commanding lead in manufacturing solar panels, wind turbines, electric vehicles and batteries, and is central to the green energy transition. Now, the US is hoping to catch up, and has spent almost $500 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act to bolster the energy transition and domestic manufacturing. Is it enough to create-long lasting change? This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Ethan Zindler, the Climate Counselor to US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. Zindler provides a rare insider's perspective on the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act, the Treasury's new Climate Hub, and the department's evolving role in tackling the economic and financial implications of the climate crisis. The discussion covers the IRA's potential impact, the challenges of communicating its complex tax incentives, and concerns around the legislation's political durability. Zindler also addresses the tensions between fossil fuel interests and clean energy priorities, as well as the Treasury's efforts to engage with international partners and ensure an equitable clean energy transition. As the US grapples with the growing costs of climate-fueled disasters, this episode offers insights into how a key economic policymaking body is adapting to the climate emergency and the new geopolitics of the green energy transition. Leadership CircleCleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.liveLinksOverview of the Treasury's climate activities: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/climate-changeCleaning Up with Dr Ma Jun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu6giWzTxAYCleaning Up with Dipender Saluja & Ion Yadigaroglu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUTPkszXs\_Y

Ocean's absorb one third of the CO2 we are recklessly pumping into the atmosphere, as well as 90% of the heat. What would happen if that were to stop?The oceans define every aspect of our planet's physical systems, its ecosystems, human history and human culture. They also define the planet's future. Oceans represent an almost unexplored frontier in the fight against climate change, whether as a host for offshore wind farms, an enhanced carbon sink, a source for critical minerals or a route for high-voltage DC cables. But could there be unintended consequences? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes Dr Helen Czerski, whose expertise is 25,000 miles wide and seven miles deep, to discuss the crucial role the oceans play in regulating our climate and keeping the planet habitable. Helen is a physicist and oceanographer, and associate professor in the Department of Mechanical Engineering at University College London. She is the author of two books: 'A Storm in a Teacup' and 'The Blue Machine', about the physics of the oceans. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live Links and more: Helen's website: https://www.helenczerski.netHelen's book, Blue Machine: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/441190/blue-machine-by-czerski-helen/9781804991961Episode 107 of Cleaning Up with David Cebon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K61ZXd_F6Qo

Is the key to clean energy the heat beneath our feet? Could advances in the fossil-fuel extraction industry hold the key to providing 24/7 clean power? And can a Texan CEO and former oil exec bring geothermal to the masses? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Cindy Taff, a 35-year veteran of Shell, where she was Vice President of Unconventional Drilling, leading a team of 350 people with a budget of over $1 billion. Since leaving Shell, Cindy has made a bold pivot to the world of geothermal energy, and is now CEO of Sage Geosystems, where she is using her expertise in drilling, project management, and subsurface engineering to try to crack next generation geothermal energy. Cindy shares her journey, from rising through the ranks at Shell to leading a startup on the cutting edge of the energy transition. She delves into the technical challenges of tapping into "hot, dry rock" geothermal resources, drilling at 20,000 feet below the Earth's surface, the regulatory hurdles of using techniques like fracking or 'stim drilling', and the potential to to use geothermal wells as an energy storage solution. Cindy has a unique perspective on how the oil and gas industry's toolbox can be repurposed to drive the clean energy transition, and believes geothermal is poised to play a crucial role in powering a sustainable future. Will she be proved right?Leadership CircleCleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live Links and moreSage Geosystems - https://www.sagegeosystems.comSage Geosystems and Meta sign 150MW geothermal power agreement - https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/geothermal/sage-geosystems-and-meta-sign-150mw-geothermal-power-agreementSage Geosystems raises $17M to build first-of-its-kind geothermal energy storage system in Texas: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/sage-geosystems-geothermal-storage-fervo-princeton/707879/Ep 168 Hot Rocks in a Box: The Rise of Thermal Batteries - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QiMC4nG1k

What will it take for electric vehicles to truly dominate the transportation landscape? Can traditional automakers adapt quickly enough to the EV revolution, or will new players seize the opportunity? And how close are we to the holy grail of fully autonomous driving? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Dr. Andy Palmer, a pioneer in the electric vehicle industry. With over 45 years of experience in the automotive sector, Andy has witnessed the industry's transformation firsthand - from his early days as an apprentice to senior leadership roles at companies like Nissan and Aston Martin. Andy shares the fascinating story behind the development of the Nissan Leaf, the world's first mass-market EV. He delves into the challenges of bringing this groundbreaking vehicle to market and how it kickstarted his journey from "piston head" to "battery head." We also explore Andy's time at Aston Martin, where he tried to steer the iconic British brand towards an electric future. Andy provides keen insights into the rapid evolution of battery technology, the role of government policy, and the future of autonomous driving. Leadership Circle: We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.liveLinks and more: Andy's website: https://www.drandypalmer.comMichael's writeup on AstonGate - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/astongate-fake-emission-figures-embattled-carmaker-sock-liebreich/The need for plurality - Andy Palmer's response to Rowan Atkinson: https://www.drandypalmer.com/post/the-need-for-plurality-in-response-to-rowan-atkinsonEpisode 175 with Greg Jackson of Octopus Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl-cRh35Hm4

As climate impacts mount, pressure is building on policymakers to find ways to alleviate the crisis. One controversial option being explored is geoengineering - direct human interventions to cool the planet. But can we safely and effectively implement these large-scale climate remedies? Bryony Worthington sits down with Kelly Wanser, Executive Director of the nonprofit SilverLining, which conducted early-stage experiments to improve the reflectivity of clouds in an experiment earlier this year. They discuss the different climate interventions being researched, the scientific and political challenges, and the critical need for robust evidence and governance to navigate these uncharted waters. From cloud brightening experiments to stratospheric aerosol injection, this conversation explores the potential upsides and major risks involved in intervening in the Earth's climate system. Leadership Circle: We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.liveLinks and more: SilverLining Website: https://www.silverlining.ngoNYTimes article on SilverLining's experiment: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/climate/global-warming-clouds-solar-geoengineering.htmlEpisode 168 with Anand Gopal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QiMC4nG1k&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE

Germany is one of the most bullish countries in the world on clean/green hydrogen. The home of the Energiewende is not just one of the most committed countries in the world to reaching net zero, it is of course a highly industrialised nation with a very energy-intensive economy. As if that were not enough, it had one third of its energy supply yanked out from under it as a result of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. Green hydrogen has become one of the mainstays of efforts to keep the lights on as the country replaces nuclear and coal power with wind and solar, and also of efforts to replace cheap Russian gas in power generation and industry. But can green hydrogen possibly live up to expectations? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by someone who works at the heart of Germany’s hydrogen policy-making machine: Eva Schmid is Director of Hydrogen and Synthetic Energy Carriers at DENA, the German Energy Agency, a think tank that works with the German government to deliver its energy strategy. As you’ll see she has a clear-eyed sense of what hydrogen can and can’t be expected to do, and a focus on using it to protect the resilience of the German economy. Leadership CircleWe are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.liveLinks & more: DENA, The German Energy Agency: https://www.dena.de/en/home/Germany's National Hydrogen Strategy, 2023: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/EN/Publikationen/Energie/national-hydrogen-strategy-update.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2Hydrogen Import Strategy: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/EN/Hydrogen/Downloads/importstrategy-hydrogen.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=1The EU Hydrogen Strategy: https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/energy-systems-integration/hydrogen/key-actions-eu-hydrogen-strategy_enEuropean Court of Auditors hydrogen report: https://www.eca.europa.eu/ECAPublications/SR-2024-11/SR-2024-11_EN.pdfEU Commissions response to Auditors report: https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECAReplies/COM-Replies-SR-2024-11/COM-Replies-SR-2024-11_EN.pdf

How does a startup become the largest provider of electricity in the UK in less than a decade? What is locational pricing and how could it encourage more renewables? And is it possible to achieve a zero-carbon electricity system by 2030? Welcome to the first episode of Season 13 of Cleaning Up, in which Michael Liebreich sits down with Greg Jackson, the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy, to uncover the incredible story behind the company's rapid growth and its transformation into a global energy powerhouse. Greg and Michael explore how Octopus Energy has gone from a small startup to the largest energy supplier in the UK, directly serving over 7 million households, and with a presence in 8 of the top 10 competitive energy markets worldwide. Greg reveals the key drivers behind Octopus Energy's success, including the innovative Kraken platform that powers their operations, the strategic acquisitions that fuelled their expansion, and the company's unwavering focus on customer-centric solutions during the recent energy crisis. The story doesn't end there. Greg shares his ambitious vision for the future, whether or not its possible to reach 1 billion Kraken licenses by 2030 and the company's groundbreaking work in areas like locational pricing, electric vehicle integration, and the electrification of home heating. Leadership CircleWe are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.liveLinks & MoreEpisode 32: Building the Billion-Customer Energy Company — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9kHNMyH7bwEpisode 154: Green Heat (and Cooling) Under our Feet — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpHa-uU6lcMichael at the Imperial College Energy Futures Lab, and the subsequent panel discussion with Greg Jackson — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Q9cuF8zKgOctopus Energy customers provide 108MW of grid flexibility in first ‘Saving Session’ — https://octopus.energy/press/believe-it-or-watt-octopus-energy-customers-provide-108mw-of-grid-flexibility-in-first-saving-session-equivalent-of-a-gas-power-station/

In the final episode of Season 12, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the key conversations and developments in the net-zero transition over the past three months, including: China's leadership in green finance and the role of air quality issues in driving climate actionThe rapid growth of the solar industry and its potential to meet global electricity demandThe progress and challenges around electric vehicles, battery recycling, and the need for a holistic approach to energy storageThe potential of thermal batteries for storing excess renewable energyThe debates around engineering solutions like direct air capture and synthetic proteinsThe politics of climate change, the UK election results, the EU's hydrogen plans, and what might happen in the USThe intersection of fashion, sustainability, and climate change We'll be back for Season 13 of Cleaning Up at the beginning of September. Thanks so much for listening, and see you then! In the meantime, please share this podcast with a friend, colleague, family, or whoever you think might enjoy it. Links and more: Listen to and watch every episode of season 12: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe8ZTD7dMaaAHKRt7GpWNkrhhrXv2-KoR Jim Mellon of Agronomics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqFPic5iqds Jonathan Maxwell of Sustainable Development Capital: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTbyOxYUpgLauri Myllyvirta, co-founder and lead analyst at CREA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjvCeR9VLg

The solar industry has experienced a meteoric rise over the past two decades, growing from a small cottage industry to one of the leading technologies in the energy transition. It’s not been a smooth ride, and there’ve been plenty of bankruptcies on the way, from Solyndra to Suntech, but more than half a terawatt of new solar is now being built each year and the industry is still growing rapidly. So how did we get here, and how far do we have to go? Michael Liebreich is joined by BloombergNEF lead solar analyst Jenny Chase to chart the course of the solar industry, do a little mythbusting, and ask what next for this multibillion dollar industry. Is China’s dominance of solar a problem? Is solar still too expensive for developing countries? And when will we get free electricity?Links: Jenny’s Book - Solar Power Finance Without the JargonThe Usain Bolt of Solar Power - Ep130: Paddy Padmanathan650 Leagues of HVDC Under the Sea - Ep92: Simon MorrishAuke Hoekstra’s IEA underestimates chart

Who are the merchants of doubt and how can their narrative be countered? How much money does it cost to get someone to take action on climate change?This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by John Marshall, the founder of the Potential Energy Coalition, a marketing firm that uses data-driven marketing techniques to accelerate the energy transition and climate action. They discuss:How John transitioned from a career in Madison Avenue marketing to founding a non-profit focused on climate change, inspired by his son.Potential Energy Coalition's use of data-driven marketing strategies to identify the most effective messaging and framing to motivate climate action, including leveraging loss aversion and emphasising what people love and fear losing.The importance of using marketing to shape the climate narrative, counter disinformation, and create political space for climate policies.How marketing can be used to promote clean energy solutions like electric vehicles and heat pumps, and the role of the nonprofit sector in supporting pro-climate policies and infrastructure.Insights on global marketing strategies for climate action, highlighting the need to tailor messages to local markets while maintaining a unifying narrative.Links & More:Potential Energy Coalition websiteJohn's TED talkThe Schoolbus AdCleaning Up Episode 141 with Naomi Oreskes

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with mechanical engineer and YouTube creator Dr Rosemary "Rosie" Barnes to discuss the critical role of engineering in addressing climate change. Rosie shares insights from her work developing clean energy technologies and her popular channel "Engineering with Rosie," where she tackles topics like wind turbine design, the hydrogen debate, and the nuclear power discussion in Australia through the lens of engineering. Rosie and Michael dive into the engineering challenges and solutions driving the energy transition, from optimising wind turbine size to navigating the politics around nuclear power. They also explore why engineers' voices are often overlooked in the climate conversation, and Rosie offers practical advice for the next generation of women in STEM fields. Read/watch more: Rosie's YouTube Channel Michael on Engineering with RosieAre Vertical Axis Wind Turbines Better?How Big Things (Should) Get Done - Ep128: Prof. Bent Flyvbjerg GenCost by CSIROAustralia's Nuclear Future - Centre for Independent Studies

Electric vehicles are finally becoming more mainstream, but this hasn’t stopped a flood of negative stories and political attempts to scare people away from making the switch to better, more cost efficient vehicles. So is the EV revolution now inevitable? Bryony Worthington sits down with Ben Nelmes, the Chief Executive of New Automotive, a UK-based not for profit focused on the clean energy transition in road transport. Ben shares his insights on the UK and European electric vehicle (EV) markets, including:How data and evidence can shape policy debates around EVs and other clean technologiesThe latest trends in EV costs, range, and charging infrastructureThe politics of EVs in the UK and Europe, including differences between political partiesThe impact of EVs on government revenues and potential reforms to vehicle taxationThe role of EVs in integrating renewable energy onto the gridRead more/links:New AutoMotiveEV Cost Saving CalculatorGlobal EV Tracker

With the UK general election tomorrow, the Cleaning Up team sits down with Dr Simon Evans of Carbon Brief to run through each party's manifesto, and what they say about UK climate and energy policy. With Labour widely predicted to win, will the UK's become an international leader on climate once more? How will GB Energy work? And where will all the money come from to fund the investments needed to turn the UK into a clean energy power house. Dr Simon Evans is the deputy editor and senior policy editor at Carbon Brief, a UK-based website covering the latest developments in climate science, climate policy and energy policy. Read more: Carbon BriefCleaning Up Episode 131 with Tzeporah BermanCleaning Up Episode 25 with Bryony WorthingtonCleaning Up Episode 30 with Claire Perry O'NeillThe Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation InitiativeThe Beyond Oil & Gas Alliance

As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliable sources of energy to produce high-temperatures. Typically these processes run on fossil gas, but now thermal batteries offer a solution by using electricity to store renewable energy in the form of heat. Anand Gopal, Executive Director of Policy Research at Californian think tank Energy Innovation, joins Baroness Bryony Worthington to discuss his team's research on using thermal batteries to provide heat for manufacturing. Or as he calls them, hot rocks in a box. By storing intermittent solar or wind energy as the heat of molten salts or crushed rocks, thermal batteries can deliver reliable heat on-demand. While the tech is almost at commercial availability, there's still one big obstacle: cost. In many countries it is still much cheaper to use gas over electricity, and that makes powering up thermal batteries uneconomical. So what needs to be done to employ them at scale? And will they take the wind out of hydrogen's sails? Find out on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. Read more: Energy InnovationIndustrial Thermal Batteries: Decarbonizing U.S. Industry While Supporting a High-Renewables GridEnergy Innovation's report on electric vehicle leasingEnergy Innovation's report on electric vs gas carsEnergy Innovation's report on industrial heat in ChinaEnergy Innovation's report on electrification of industrial heat

Depending on who you ask, methane is either a useful transition fuel to a low-carbon future, or a super polluter. The science of methane says that for natural gas to have a lower climate footprint than other fossil fuels, particularly coal, there can be leakage of no more than 3.2% from end to end. Yet studies across the US show wildly different leakage rates. One of the most influential, by Robert Howarth of Cornell University, puts it at 4.8%, making methane worse for the environment than coal. The EPA tells a different story, and says leakage rates are just 0.93%. All of this really matters for the climate, especially since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The US has become the world's biggest producer and exporter of natural gas, and hundreds of billions of dollars have been invested globally on the premise that natural gas is a cleaner stop-gap between our fossil present and our low-carbon future. So who's right? And how can we find ways to reduce those methane emissions in either case. Grant Swartzwelder, founder of OTA Environmental Solutions and ESG Dynamics, based in Dallas, Texas, joins Cleaning Up to tease out the problem. Episode Update (Dec 2024)The 3.2% figure refers to the relative warming impact of coal-fired power generation versus national gas with a given level of leakage on day one - when all of the methane is still in the atmosphere. As methane decays in the atmosphere faster than CO2 is absorbed, the “breakeven” level of fugitive emissions increases as you look at longer periods. If you take the standard 100-year warming period, fugitive emissions from natural gas would need to be around 8% - well above those measured in the US – for gas power to be as bad as coal power. At 20 years the figure is around 4%. (source: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1202407109) The 4.8% figure has been modified by Professor Howarth subsequent to the release of the episode, based on critiques received when it was in pre-print. Criticism continues, however, and one proposed corrected analysis shows that 100-year GHG intensity of LNG that are at most 15% below the lowest general estimates for coal-fired power. (source: https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/energy/a-major-paper-on-liquified-natural-gas-emissions-is-riddled-with-errors) More links/resources: OTA Environmental Solutions - https://otaenvironmentalsolutions.comESG Dynamics - https://esg-dynamics.comRobert Howarth study into US methane leakage rates - https://www.research.howarthlab.org/documents/Howarth2022_EM_Magazine_methane.pdfInternational Energy Agency methane tracker 2024 - https://www.iea.org/reports/global-methane-tracker-2024Cleaning Up Episode 157 - Leaking Methane Needs an Urgent Fix - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Z7oZMpsCleaning Up Episode 146 - Jason Anderson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWUzOZmJSlI

Has science cracked the code on mass producing realistic meat substitutes? Or are lab-gown alternative proteins an impossible dream? In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with president of the Good Food Institute, Bruce Friedrich, to explore the future of food. Friedrich details his vision for a more sustainable food system through technologies like plant-based and cultivated meat and outlines the promising progress and significant challenges remaining in scaling these novel proteins. Worthington and Friedrich debate the roles of policy, public opinion, and big agriculture in determining whether alternative proteins can truly transform our food system or remain forever niche.Links and more: The Good Food Institute (https://gfi.org) TEA of cultivated meat. Future projections for different scenarios (https://cedelft.eu/publications/tea-of-cultivated-meat/) A new land dividend: the opportunity of alternative proteins in Europe (https://green-alliance.org.uk/publication/a-new-land-dividend-the-opportunity-of-alternative-proteins-in-europe/) Recipe for a Livable Planet: Achieving Net Zero Emissions in the Agrifood System: (https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/entities/publication/406c71a3-c13f-49cd-8f3f-a071715858fb) UNEP Report on alternative proteins (https://www.unep.org/resources/whats-cooking-assessment-potential-impacts-selected-novel-alternatives-conventional) Episode 136 with Jim Mellon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqFPic5iqds)

As everyone knows, battery prices are plummeting and manufacturing volumes are soaring, whether for EVs or for grid-connected storage. And everyone knows there's a problem: only 5% of lithium-ion batteries are recycled. The rest go to landfill, right? Wrong. This week's guest on Cleaning Up is the world's preeminent expert on battery recycling. Hans Eric Melin is the Founder and Managing Director of Circular Energy Storage. Circular Energy Storage is a London-based data collection and analytics consultancy focused on the lithium-ion battery end-of-life market. They help companies and organisations in the entire battery value chain to take better decisions in everything that relates to reuse and recycling of lithium-ion batteries. They do this by continuously collecting, analysing and publishing data from all parts of the value chain worldwide and by working actively with customers in their strategy and business development. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more: Circular Energy Storage: https://circularenergystorage.com/about Hans' LinkedIn post on the false narratives around lithium-ion battery recycling rates: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-rate-other-untruths-battery-recycling-hans-eric-melin-m5lde Hans' more extensive research report explaining the real rates: https://www.energimyndigheten.se/globalassets/forskning--innovation/overgripande/state-of-the-art-in-reuse-and-recycling-of-lithium-ion-batteries-2019.pdf The 2023 Battery Materials Review Yearbook, featuring a chapter authored by Hans: https://www.batterymaterialsreview.com/products/ The 2016 paper Hans mentioned, featuring the 95% landfill rate: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11837-016-1994-y

Last week the leading lights of Europe's electricity industry gathered for the annual Eurelectric Power Summit at the Lagonissi Beach Resort just outside Athens. The conference - under the hashtag this year of #lights on - lasted two days and covered the key issues facing Europe's and the world's power sectors. Two topics in particular stood out: the need to accelerate the build out of transmission, and the pressures and opportunities offered by digitization and AI. At the event, Eurelectric published a brace of reports on these two topics. On the final day of the conference, Michael caught up with Leonhard Birnbaum, Chairman and CEO of German utility and distribution grid operator E.ON and President of Eurelectric, on a sunny and windy terrace just outside the conference centre to discuss all this and more.Leonhard began his professional career at McKinsey in Düsseldorf. After holding various positions, he was Senior Partner for the energy and industrial sector. In 2008, he joined RWE AG and was appointed to the Board of Management the same year. He served as Chief Strategy Officer and as RWE Group’s Chief Commercial Officer until 2013, when he was appointed as member of the Board of Management of E.ON SE and took on a variety of responsibilities within the Board. From 2018 until 2021 he was responsible for the innogy integration project, and from 2019 to 2020, he was also Chairman of the Board of Management of innogy SE. In 2021, he was appointed to his current role as CEO of E.ON SE, in which he is responsible for Communications & Political Affairs, Corporate Audit, Strategy, Group and Executive HR, HSE & Sustainability, Legal & Compliance and Nuclear Coordination. He is also Vice-President of the Executive Committee of BDEW, the German Association of Energy and Water Industries, a member of the Executive Committee of the Federation of German Industries (BDI) and President of Eurelectric, the European Electricity Association, and Vice Chair of the World Energy Council. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more:Eurelectric: https://www.eurelectric.org/E.ON: https://www.eon.com/en.htmlEurelectric Power Summit 2024 - LightsOn: https://powersummit2024.eurelectric.org/Eurelectric's new report - Grids for Speed: https://powersummit2024.eurelectric.org/grids-for-speed/Eurelectric's new report - Wired for Tomorrow: https://powersummit2024.eurelectric.org/wired-for-tomorrow/ElElectrify Almost Everything for Net-Zero - Ep34: Kristian Ruby: https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-34-kristian-ruby/

China's policies that direct capital towards cleaner industries have been game changing, and this week we're continuing the China theme, sharing two conversations Bryony had earlier this month at a conference at Xiamen University in Fujian Province. China's role in the clean energy transition could not be more important. The think tank Ember's latest report on the state of the global electricity transition states: over half of the world's new wind and solar power capacity last year was added in China, and together with hydro and nuclear, clean electricity in China now meets 35% of their electricity demand. And yet, the scale and the nature of the Chinese economy is so enormous it's hard to grasp, the majority of which is still powered by roughly 1000 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations, half of the global total. The focus of the conference was on a specific lever that could help China further along its decarbonisation path: the repowering of existing coal stations with clean sources of heat. Bryony's first guest, Staffan Qvist is a published academic, co-author of the book A Bright Future, and founder of a number of companies dedicated to the clean energy transition. He's been studying this concept of coal repowering since he first co-authored papers on the subject with Polish colleagues in 2019. Bryony's second guest is Assistant Professor Yaoli Zhang of Xiamen University, a thermal generation engineer by training who later "repowered" himself and switched to nuclear engineering. He currently oversees a team researching the repairing of coal in China from both a practical and economic perspective. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more: How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun: https://www.cleaningup.live/how-china-became-a-green-finance-superpower-ep160-dr-ma-jun/ The 2019 book Staffan co-authored - A Bright Future: https://brightfuturebook.com The March 2024 US Department of Energy guide on converting coal-fired power plants to nuclear power: https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/8-things-know-about-converting-coal-plants-nuclear-power ...and the associated press release: https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/doe-study-finds-replacing-coal-plants-nuclear-plants-could-bring-hundreds-more-local The 2022 Paper Dr Zhang and Staffan co-authored on the potential of repowering China's CFPPs with nuclear: https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v15y2022i3p1072-d739738.html A recent IAEA article on repurposing CFPPs to nuclear: https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/repurposing-coal-power-plant-sites-with-low-carbon-nuclear

The 5th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial in Tokyo announced that by 2030, the world would produce and use 90 million tonnes of renewable and low-carbon hydrogen. Then, last year, the 6th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial not only reiterated the 90 million tonne target, but went further, promising that the overall market for hydrogen would grow to 150 million tonnes by 2030. All very exciting, and it helped to ensure that hydrogen was one of the hot topics at COP 28 in Dubai a few months later. But these targets are unachievable. The issue is simple: it's money. The biggest challenge facing low emission hydrogen is that it is expensive to produce, expensive to transport, expensive to store, expensive to distribute, and expensive to use. Whether you're switching existing users to clean hydrogen or pushing hydrogen into sectors where it's not currently used, it takes money - and lots of it. In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, we find how much and how much more governments would have to spend for hydrogen to live up to its hype. This audio blog is adapted from a piece Michael wrote at the end of last year for BloombergNEF, entitled "Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions", which estimated that hitting the Hydrogen Energy Ministerial target of 90 million tonnes of clean energy by 2030 would require subsidies of at least $2.3 trillion to be on the table right now, while the actual figure at the end of last year was 1/10th of that. Although the figures have changed a bit since then, the message remains the same: the subsidy gap remains in the multiple trillions of dollars. It should not therefore be surprising that the news is full of projects being cancelled and delayed. In fact, that will be one of the main hydrogen stories through to 2030 and beyond. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Find our archive of over 160 hours of conversations with extraordinary climate leaders at https://cleaningup.live. LinksMichael's December 2023 BloombergNEF piece - "Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions", on which this audio blog is based: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-clean-hydrogens-missing-trillions/Michael's September 2023 BloombergNEF Piece - "The Five Horsemen of the Transition": https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder/Michael's December 2022 BloombergNEF piece - "The Unbearable Lightness of Hydrogen": https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-the-unbearable-lightness-of-hydrogen/The Chair's Summary of the 6th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial: https://hem-2023.nedo.go.jp/wp-content/themes/suiso2023--THEME/files/charis-summary-en.pdfThe US National Petroleum Council Report - "Harnessing Hydrogen": https://harnessinghydrogen.npc.orgThe PwC Report - "Navigating the Global Hydrogen Ecosystem": https://www.strategyand.pwc.com/de/en/industries/energy-utilities/navigating-the-hydrogen-ecosystem.htmlThe IEA's 2023 Net Zero Roadmap: https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/13dab083-08c3-4dfd-a887-42a3ebe533bc/NetZeroRoadmap_AGlobalPathwaytoKeepthe1.5CGoalinReach-2023Update.pdfThe IEA's Global Hydrogen Review: https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/8d434960-a85c-4c02-ad96-77794aaa175d/GlobalHydrogenReview2023.pdf Related EpisodesAudioblog 11 - The Five Horsemen of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-11-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder-1/Audioblog 8- The Unbearable Lightness of Hydrogen: https://www.cleaningup.live/cleaning-up-audioblog-episode-8-the-unbearable-lightness-of-hydrogen/

Up this week is Simon Holmes à Court, the Australian investor and philanthropist with a passion for using data to change the world. In 2022, the federal elections in Australia delivered an upset, as around a third of the electorate turned their back on the established parties and voted in seven new independent MPs taking the total to 10. Simon was responsible for a crowdfunding initiative - Climate 200 - that supported 23 candidates in all, pledging to act on climate, political integrity and gender discrimination. He remains very involved in the challenge of pivoting Australia from a fossil fuel based economy to a clean energy superpower. Simon is an energy analyst, clean-tech investor, climate philanthropist, and director of the Smart Energy Council and the Australian Environmental Grantmakers Network. He was co-founder of the Australian Wind Alliance and inaugural chair of the Melbourne Energy Institute’s Advisory Board. He is a respected commentator on the economic, political and engineering aspects of Australia’s energy transition. Links: Simon's 2022 book The Big Teal: https://publishing.monash.edu/product/the-big-teal/ Simon's ABC interview on the success of Climate 200 in the wake of the 2022 elections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Mhz6b7cg4 Simon's 2021 talk - Independents and Climate - The Hope to End the Lost Decade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN_-1eLbLL8 Simon's 2018 op-ed which triggered his expulsion from Kooyong 200: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/09/why-liddell-is-likely-to-close-in-2022-and-why-you-shouldnt-careThe Superpower Institute, working for Australian leadership in the transition: https://www.superpowerinstitute.com.au/

How can we build a more united climate movement? What should be the role of geoengineering? And how can indigenous voices be brought into the climate conversation?Bryony puts these questions to model, actor, director, ambassador and businesswoman, Lily Cole. Lily's career began at age 14 when she was recruited as a model, pitching her into the high-octane world of fashion. She remains a self-confessed geek, however, and completed her studies including a degree from Cambridge University. In 2016, she started researching a book ‘Who Cares Wins,’ which was published in 2020. In both the book and the podcast that followed, she gives a platform to a wide range of people, always seeking to see both sides of the many debates, and also to inspire optimism thanks to the wide range of solutions that are out there, be they technologically driven, or founded on ancient traditions and wisdoms.Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more:Lily’s website and companyWho Cares Wins: Lily’s book and podcastThe Righteous Mind by Jonathan HaidtThe Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David WengrowSky Diamond — Carbon capture diamondsBryony’s recommended documentary on diamonds

Welcome to Season 12 of Cleaning Up! If you want a sense of the trajectory of climate action, you have to understand China, and you have to understand finance. There is no one better to share insights on both than Dr Ma Jun, Founder and President of the Institute of Finance and Sustainability in Beijing.Between 2014 and 2020, Dr Ma served as Chief Economist and then Member of the Monetary Policy Committee of the People’s Bank of China. Over the subsequent years, Dr Ma played a key role in the development of sustainable finance in China and around the world. He led the drafting of China’s green finance and green bond guidelines; he led work on green finance at the G20; he pushed for the greening of China’s Belt and Road initiative; he set up initiatives with the global accounting and standards bodies; and he helped enlist the world’s major financial centres in the drive to green the capital markets. Dr Ma is a towering figure in the area of green finance in China and in the world, and provides an invaluable perspective on one of the most significant players in the clean energy transition.Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and related episodes:Dr Ma’s 2017 book, “The Economics of Air Pollution in China: Achieving Better and Cleaner Growth” https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/ma--17494Dr Ma and Simon Zadek: Decarbonizing the Belt and Road https://www.climateworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/BRI_Exec_Summary_v10-screen_pages_lo-1.pdfEpisodes 14 with Jonathan Maxwell – Cheaper, Cleaner, More Reliable https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-14-jonathan-maxwell/Episodes 113 with Jonathan Maxwell — Checkpoint 2023: Energy Efficiency Investment https://www.cleaningup.live/ep113-jonathan-maxwell-checkpoint-2023-energy-efficiency-investment/Episode 153 with Lauri Myllivyrta – Shedding Light on Energy's Dirty Secrets https://www.cleaningup.live/shedding-light-on-energys-dirty-secrets-ep153-lauri-myllyvirta/Episode 84 with Mark Carney - The 130 Trillion-Dollar Man https://www.cleaningup.live/ep84-mark-carney-matching-net-zero-supply-and-demand/Episode 145 with Professor Avinash Persaud – The Bridgetown Initiator https://www.cleaningup.live/the-bridgetown-initiator-ep145-prof-avinash-persaud/

Bryony and Michael round up the eleventh season of Cleaning Up this week. They explore the themes running through the episodes, from theories of change to innovation, and discuss the things that surprised them, the moments they liked (or didn't) and reasons for optimism for the transition. Links: Ep149: Material World - Ed Conway: https://www.cleaningup.live/material-world-ep149-ed-conway/ Ep150: Selling Sustainability - Solitaire Townsend: https://www.cleaningup.live/selling-sustainability-ep150-solitaire-townsend/Ep151: Redesigning Mining - Mark Cutifani: https://www.cleaningup.live/redesigning-mining-ep151-mark-cutifani/ Ep152: Can We Have a Habitable Planet? - David Wallace-Wells: https://www.cleaningup.live/can-we-have-an-habitable-planet-ep152-david-wallace-wells/ Ep153: Shedding Light on Energy's Dirty Secrets - Lauri Myllyvirta: https://www.cleaningup.live/shedding-light-on-energys-dirty-secrets-ep153-lauri-myllyvirta/ Ep154: Green Heat (And Cooling) Under Our Feet - Tamsin Lishman: https://www.cleaningup.live/green-heat-and-cooling-under-our-feet-ep154-tamsin-lishman/ Ep155: Extreme Electrochemistry - Prof. Donald Sadoway: https://www.cleaningup.live/extreme-electrochemistry-for-a-sustainable-future-ep155-prof-donald-sadoway/ Ep156: A Magnificent Woman And Her Flying Machines - Bonny Simi: https://www.cleaningup.live/a-magnificent-woman-and-her-flying-machines-ep156-bonny-simi/ A11: The Five Horsemen of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-11-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder-1/ A12: The Five Superheroes of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-12-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/Ep157: The Methane Hunters - Sebastien Biraud & Sharon Wilson: https://www.cleaningup.live/the-methane-hunters-ep157-dr-sebastien-biraud-sharon-wilson/Ep 158: Absolutely Electrifying - Saul Griffith: https://www.cleaningup.live/absolutely-electrifying-ep158-saul-griffith/

Michael chats with Saul Griffith, Australian-born engineer, inventor, advisor, author and 2007 MacArthur "Genius". He specialises in clean and renewable energy technologies, and has founded a dozen technology companies across 20 years in Silicon Valley, as well as authoring 3 books, including `Electrify', and `The Big Switch'. He has recently turned his attention from Otherlab, his independent Research and Development lab, to policy work and writing, including founding Rewiring America and Rewiring Australia, non-partisan organisations dedicated to electrification and decarbonisation and the associated policy and regulatory implications of meeting our climate goals. Saul received his Ph.D. at MIT in the junction between materials science and information theory. Prior to MIT, he studied in Sydney, Australia and at UC Berkeley in metallurgical engineering. Links Buy Saul's 2022 book Electrify: An Optimist's Playbook for Our Clean Energy Future: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262545044/electrify/ Buy Saul's The Big Switch: Australia’s Electric Future: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Big-Switch-Australias-Electric-Future-ebook/dp/B09QFQHF8W Buy Saul's 2023 extended essay: https://www.quarterlyessay.com.au/essay/2023/03/the-wires-that-bind Related Episodes The Bridgetown Initiator - Ep145: Prof Avinash Persaud: https://www.cleaningup.live/the-bridgetown-initiator-ep145-prof-avinash-persaud/ Audioblog 12: The 5 Superheroes of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-12-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/

Bryony speaks to two fascinating guests, both specialising in methane emissions, their causes and impacts: Dr. Sebastien Biraud and Sharon Wilson.Dr. Biraud is a biogeochemist, leading the Climate Sciences Department. Sebastien's work has taken him to the tropical rainforests of the Amazon, the great plains of the United States, and the Arctic tundra. He is currently co-leading/leading projects for the U.S. Department of Energy and the California Energy Commission. These projects involve integrating and applying high-precision greenhouse gas observations to advance research on the atmospheric carbon cycle and to enhance measurement, reporting, and verification of greenhouse gas emissions. Sharon is a 5th generation Texan who, after 12 years working for the oil and gas industry in Ft. Worth, left and bought 42 acres in Wise County. Unknown to her at the time was that George Mitchell was experimenting in Wise County to figure out how to produce oil and gas from shale. She had a ringside seat at the sneak preview called Fracking Impacts. This experience prompted her to join Earthworks’, working on their Oil & Gas Accountability Project in 2010. In 2014, she became a certified optical gas imaging thermographer and now travels across the U.S. making visible the invisible methane pollution from oil and gas facilities through her non-profit, Oilfield Witness, and giving tours to media, Members of Congress, state lawmakers, regulators, and investment bankers. Links Explore Sharon's work at Oilfield Witness here: https://oilfieldwitness.orgView Oilfield Witness' award-winning documentary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMT2ESXlZ14 Read Sebastien's interview about his work for the Berkeley Lab News Centre here: https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/11/10/methanes-short-lifespan-presents-golden-opportunity-to-quickly-address-climate-change/ Read about EDF's MethaneSAT, a recently-launched satellite to track global methane emissions: https://www.ft.com/content/d3d8e7fe-4f0f-4eaf-9bc3-ae99b3fa322a Learn more about MethaneSAT here: https://www.methanesat.org Related Episodes Tackling Super Pollutants - Ep146: Jason Anderson: https://www.cleaningup.live/tackling-super-pollutants-ep146-jason-anderson/

This week, Michael presents the second part of his two-parter for Bloomberg New Energy Finance, exploring the bear and bull cases for the net zero transition. This week is the bull case: the "5 superheroes" of the transition, 5 forces/trends even more powerful than last week's "5 horsemen", which can prevail in the challenge of rapidly decarbonising the global economy. The 5 superheroes are: Exponential Growth, Systems Solutions, Great Power Competition, Disappearing Demand, and the Primary Energy Fallacy. And stay tuned until the end for a 6th "bonus" superhero!This audioblog is based on Michael's Bloomberg New Energy Finance opinion piece of the same title. LinksRead the original BNEF piece on which this audio blog was based: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/Read the latest IEA Renewables Report 2023: https://www.iea.org/news/massive-expansion-of-renewable-power-opens-door-to-achieving-global-tripling-goal-set-at-cop28Read the 2017 research paper - Limits to Growth in the Renewable Energy Sector: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032119305143Read Michael's 2018 piece for BNEF - Beyond Three Thirds, The Road to Deep Decarbonisation: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-beyond-three-thirds-road-deep-decarbonization/Read the research review by Hans Eric Melin on the reuse and recycling rates of lithium-ion batteries: https://www.energimyndigheten.se/globalassets/forskning--innovation/overgripande/state-of-the-art-in-reuse-and-recycling-of-lithium-ion-batteries-2019.pdfRead Michael Barnard's analysis of the proportion of global shipping linked to the fossil fuel industry: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelbarnard/2023/12/05/how-will-climate-action-change-the-face-of-global-shipping/?sh=73844bc869d0View the Lawrence Livermore Sankey Diagram showing estimated US energy flows in 2022: https://flowcharts.llnl.govRead the first part of this BNEF piece on the "5 horsemen" of the transition: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder/ Related EpisodesAudioblog 11: Net Zero Will Be Harder Than You Think - And Easier. Part 1: Harder: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-11-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder-1/Audioblog 10: The Next Half-Trillion-Dollar Market – Electrification of Heat: https://www.cleaningup.live/cleaning-up-audioblog-episode-10-the-next-half-trillion-dollar-market-electrification-of-heat/

Michael is solo this week on Cleaning Up, outlining the "5 horsemen" of the net-zero transition - the five greatest obstacles to the net zero transition. These 5 horsemen are: the economics of energy solutions, the electrical grid, the demand for critical mineral, political and social inertia, predatory delay by the powerful incumbents. This audioblog is based on Michael's Bloomberg New Energy Finance opinion piece of the same title. LinksRead the original essay here: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder/Read Michael's 2022 essay, 'The Quest for Resilience – What Could Possibly Go Wrong?' here: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-the-quest-for-resilience-what-could-possibly-go-wrong/Read Michael's 2023 essay, 'The Next Half-Trillion-Dollar Market – Electrification of Heat': https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-the-next-half-trillion-dollar-market-electrification-of-heat/Read Bloomberg NEF's 2022 New Energy Outlook: https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/Read the IEA's report on the role of critical minerals in the transition: https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitionsRead the IPSOS report study - 'What Worries the World'?: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-06/Global-Summary_What-Worries-the-World.pdfRead Simon Michaux's report on the required quantity of critical minerals for net zero: https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-manufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/Read Part 2 of this two-parter, on the "5 superheroes" of the transition: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/ Related EpisodesReview Ep141 with Naomi Oreskes - Lifting the Curtain on Climate Change Denial: https://www.cleaningup.live/lifting-the-curtain-on-climate-change-denial-ep-141-prof-naomi-oreskes/

Bryony returns with Bonny Simi, President of Operations at Joby Aviation, where she's working on bringing to market a new civilian electric VTOL (eVTOL) aircraft. Prior to joining the team at Joby, Bonny held several operational and strategic roles at JetBlue Most notably, she founded and led JetBlue Technology Ventures, investing in improving the travel, hospitality, and transportation industries. As a pilot, Bonny has commanded Boeing, Airbus and Embraer aircraft at both United Airlines and JetBlue Airways. She is also an Emmy-nominated sports reporter and a 3-time Olympian in the sport of Luge. She holds a BA in Communications, a MS in Management and a MS in Engineering, all from Stanford University, as well as a MS in Human Resources from Regis University. Links Explore Joby's website here: https://www.jobyaviation.com You can watch more footage of Joby's eVTOL aircraft here: https://www.youtube.com/@JobyAviation/featured Read about Joby's partnership with the US DoD here: https://www.jobyaviation.com/news/joby-delivers-first-evtol-edwards/ Hear Bonny talk more about her lessons from competing in luge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9Ey6fdnT0 Listen to the theme song from Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines (the title inspiration for this episode!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPgS26ZhqZs

Michael returns to talk with legendary educator and inventor, Donald Sadoway, Professor Emeritus of Materials Chemistry at MIT. After earning his PhD in chemical metallurgy in 1977 at the University of Toronto, he joined the faculty at MIT where he spent 44 years. For 16 of those, he taught 3.091 (Introduction to Solid-State Chemistry)—and his animated lectures, peppered with references to music, art, and literature—doubtless contributed to the subject’s popularity. Among the many accolades bestowed on Professor Sadoway in his 44 years as a teacher and researcher at MIT was a compliment by Bill Gates: “best chemistry lessons anywhere. Unbelievable.” In 2012, for the invention of the liquid metal battery, he was named by Time magazine one of the “100 Most Influential People in the World.” He has founded several hard tech startups, including Ambri, Avanti Battery Company, Pure Lithium and Boston Metal. Links Review Donald's 2012 TED talk, "The Missing Link to Renewable Energy" here: https://www.ted.com/talks/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_energy?language=enExplore Avanti Battery Company's tech here: https://avanti.energyExplore Ambri's tech here: https://ambri.comExplore Pure Lithium's tech here: https://www.purelithium.ioExplore Boston Metal's tech here: https://www.bostonmetal.comExplore Sadoway Labs' research here: https://sadowaylabs.orgTake Prof Sadoway's course, 3.091 - Introduction to Solid State Chemistry - here: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/3-091sc-introduction-to-solid-state-chemistry-fall-2010/ Related Episodes Metals Refining - From Mining to Brining - Ep142: Alex Grant: https://www.cleaningup.live/metals-refining-from-mining-to-brining-ep-142-alex-grant/Iron-Air Man - Ep144: Mateo Jaramillo: https://www.cleaningup.live/iron-air-man-ep144-mateo-jaramillo/

Tamsin Lishman joins Bryony this week to talk heat pumps. Tamsin is CEO of Kensa Group, a Cornwall-based manufacturer and installer of ground source heat pumps. Kensa is the UK's only manufacturer of ground source heat pumps. Both air source and ground source heat pumps are rapidly growing technologies, and Tamsin believes that Kensa's heat pumps can - and will - be deployed to electrify domestic heating in the UK. On a recent episode of Cleaning Up, Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the IEA, argued that heat pumps are "the closest thing to a silver bullet" we have in the race to net-zero. In over two decades, Kensa has saved over 1 million tonnes of carbon through ground source heat pump installations. The Kensa Group is partly owned by Legal & General Capital, part of Legal & General PLC, and Octopus Energy. Tamsin was appointed CEO of Kensa Group in July 2023. Previously, she had stints at EnergyNest and Centrica. She holds a Master of Engineering from Oxford University. Links See Kensa's website here: https://www.thekensagroup.com Read the IEA's report on the future of heat pumps: https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-heat-pumps (For UK viewers) Check out the UK government's tool to see if a heat pump could be suitable for your home: https://www.gov.uk/check-heat-pump Read this Guardian piece on heat pump installations in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/08/greener-cheaper-much-warmer-heat-pump-owners-laud-their-new-system Read about Kensa's recent fundraise of £70m from Octopus and Legal&General, with the help of EcoPragma Capital, here: https://www.kensaheatpumps.com/news-blog/pump-it-up-octopus-energy-and-legal-general-make-britains-biggest-investment-in-ground-source-heat-pumps/

Michael sits down this week with Lauri Myllyvirta, co-founder and lead analyst at CREA - the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. After working as a campaigner and then as an analyst at Greenpeace, Lauri helped set up CREA, an NGO that produces research reports on the trends, causes, health impacts, and solutions to air pollution. Importantly, CREA makes extensive reference to local-language evidence sources - helped by Lauri's impressive knowledge of European and Asian languages. Lauri has degrees in economics from Helsinki University and in environmental science from University of Jyvaskyla. Links Read the BBC's recent articles highlighting CREA's research on the UK's Russian oil sanctions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68018660 And read the original CREA report here: https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/evading-the-sanctions-uk-imports-oil-products-made-from-russian-crude/ Read CREA's report on the surge in coal power in China in 2023: https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/chinas-new-coal-power-spree-continues-as-more-provinces-jump-on-the-bandwagon/ Read CREA's report on the health impacts of delaying coal decommissioning in South Africa: https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/health-impacts-of-delaying-coal-power-plant-decommissioning-in-south-africa/ Read CREA's report on the recent spree of coal plant permitting in India: https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/india-enters-an-unnecessary-coal-plant-permitting-spree-in-2023/ Read CREA's report on the state of Indonesia's transition: https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/emerging-captive-coal-power-in-indonesia/ Explore all of CREA's reports here: https://energyandcleanair.org/publications/

This week, Bryony is back, this time to talk to David Wallace-Wells. David is an American journalist and author who often writes about climate change. His 2017 article "The Uninhabitable Earth" for New York Magazine was the publication's most-read article in history. David then turned the article into a book of the same name, which was chosen as Book of the Year, 2019, by The Sunday Times, The Spectator and New Statesman. He has a BA in History from Brown University. Links Read David's original 2017 article here: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html Read the 2020 Nature Article on RCP 8.5 here: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00177-3 Read Jim Hansen's recent paper on climate sensitivity: https://academic.oup.com/oocc/article/3/1/kgad008/7335889 View Bryony's favourite Sankey diagram showing US energy inputs and outputs: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/

This week, Michael's guest is Mark Cutifani, chairman of Vale Base Metals and formerly CEO of South African gold mining company, Ashanti, and British mining company, Anglo American. He was born and grew up in Wollongong, Australia. After leaving high school in 1976, he joined Coal Cliff colliery and enrolled in the University of Wollongong to complete a degree in Mining Engineering. He graduated in 1982, top of his class. After working for Coal Cliff, he joined Kalgoorlie Gold Mines, the Western Mining Corporation, Normandy Mining and Sons of Gwalia. In 2007, Cutifani left Inco Limited, where he held the position of chief operating officer. On 17 September 2007, he joined Ashanti, as a director of the company and was appointed CEO on 1 October that year. Shortly after joining Ashanti, Cutifani introduced a campaign called "Safety is our first value". Research into the 2007 fatalities at the company had shown that 70% of the fatalities were caused by sub-standard operations or actions. Cutifani aimed to reduce the number of fatalities by changing the company's culture and improving communication, citing legacy issues from the past as a main cause for the fatalities. During his tenure, the fatality rate was reduced by 50%. He was one of the critics of the new Australian Mining Super Tax, which was announced in 2010, stating that it could delay or endanger the company's Tropicana Gold Mine project. Links Find out more about the Development Partner Institute here: https://www.dpimining.org Find out more about the ICMM here: https://www.icmm.com Read more about the Anglo American - Thungela de-merger here: https://www.worldcoal.com/coal/07062021/anglo-american-completes-demerger-of-thungela-thermal-coal-business/ Watch Anglo American's review of Mark's time with the company here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXaYCJOWg-4 Related Episodes Material World - Ep149: Ed Conway: https://www.cleaningup.live/material-world-ep149-ed-conway/ 650 Leagues of HVDC Under the Sea - Ep92: Simon Morrish: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep92-simon-morrish-650-leagues-of-hvdc-under-the-sea/

Bryony returns in Season 11 this week, sitting down with her longtime friend Solitaire Townsend. Solitaire is Co-founder & Chief Solutionist at Futerra, and Trustee of the Solutions Union. She is a renowned sustainability expert and solutionist. From Google to the United Nations, Ikea to WWF, Solitaire works with the worlds’ most influential organisations to activate social justice and environmental restoration. Over two decades she has led the movement towards solutions, hope and optimism with numerous publications and keynotes at the UN, MIT, Ted and many more. She was named “Ethical Entrepreneur of the Year” in 2008 and more recently chair of the UK Green Energy Scheme, trustee of Ashden, a founder member of the United Nations Sustainable Lifestyles Taskforce and a London Leader for Sustainability. She holds master’s degrees in both Sustainable Development and Shakespeare. Links Solitaire's recent book, The Solutionists: How Businesses Can Fix the Future: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Solutionists-How-Businesses-Can-Future/dp/139860934X Watch Solitaire's 2021 Ted talk - Are Ad Agencies, PR Firms and Lobbyists Destroying the Climate?: https://www.ted.com/talks/solitaire_townsend_are_ad_agencies_pr_firms_and_lobbyists_destroying_the_climate?language=enThe Game Changers Movie on Meat and Nutrition: https://gamechangersmovie.com Buy Lovebug cat food here: https://www.lovebugpetfood.com Related Episodes Lifting the Curtain on Climate Change Denial - Ep 141: Prof Naomi Oreskes: https://www.cleaningup.live/lifting-the-curtain-on-climate-change-denial-ep-141-prof-naomi-oreskes/

Kicking-off 2024 and Season 11 is Ed Conway. Ed is the Economics editor at Sky News, covering major UK and international economics, business and political stories. He is also economics columnist for The Times, and has been one of the longest-running economics editors in UK journalism, having started covering the sector in 2003. He is the author of the book on Bretton Woods, The Summit: The Biggest Battle Of The Second World War – Fought Behind Closed Doors (Little, Brown, 2014) and an economics guidebook, 50 Economics Ideas You Really Need to Know (Quercus, 2009). Ed is a governor of the National Institute for Economic and Social Research, and has lectured on the international monetary system at the London School of Economics, the US Treasury and many other forums.His new book, Material World: A Substantial Story of Our Past and Future, explores the history, future and importance of six crucial substances: sand, salt, iron, copper, oil and lithium. LinksCheck out Material World here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Material-World-Substantial-Story-Future/dp/0753559153Check out Oliver Rackham's The History of the Countryside here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Countryside-Dr-Oliver-Rackham/dp/1842124404Read Hans Eric Meilin's research on the real rates of lithium recycling: https://www.energimyndigheten.se/globalassets/forskning--innovation/overgripande/state-of-the-art-in-reuse-and-recycling-of-lithium-ion-batteries-2019.pdf Related EpisodesEpisode 16 - Dr Kandeh K. Yumkella: "Sustainable Energy for All": https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-16-kandeh-yumkella/Episode 92 - Simon Morrish: "650 Leagues of HVDC Under the Sea": https://www.cleaningup.live/ep92-simon-morrish-650-leagues-of-hvdc-under-the-sea/Episode 142 - Alex Grant: "Metals Refining - From Mining to Brining": https://www.cleaningup.live/metals-refining-from-mining-to-brining-ep-142-alex-grant/

For a second consecutive year-closer, Michael welcomes Lord Adair Turner of Ecchinswell back to Cleaning Up. Lord Turner has combined careers in business, public policy and academia. He chairs the Energy Transitions Commission, a global coalition of major power and industrial companies, investors, environmental NGOs and experts working out achievable pathways to limit global warming to well below 2˚C by 2040 while stimulating economic development and social progress. He was chairman of the Institute for New Economic Thinking until January 2019, where he remains a Senior Fellow. He is Chairman of Chubb Europe and on the Advisory Board of Envision Energy, a Shanghai-based group focussed on renewable energy, batteries and digital systems.He became a cross bench member of the House of Lords in 2006.Amongst his business roles, Lord Turner was at McKinsey&Co (1982-1995); was Vice-Chairman of Merrill Lynch Europe (2000-2006) and a Non-Executive Director of a number of companies, including Standard Chartered plc (2006-2008). He is Senior Fellow at the Centre for Financial Studies (Frankfurt) and a Visiting Fellow at the People’s Bank of China School of Finance, Tsinghua University (Beijing). He writes regularly for Project Syndicate, and has published “Between Debt and the Devil” (Princeton 2015), and Economics after the Crisis (MIT 2012).He is a Trustee Emeritus of the British Museum, honorary fellow of The Royal Society, and received an Honorary Degree from Cambridge University in 2017. Links Michael’s BNEF piece - Clean Hydrogen’s Missing Trillions: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-clean-hydrogens-missing-trillions/#:~:text=My%20estimate%20for%20the%20total,a%20shortfall%20of%20over%2090%25Michael’s X thread on battery recycling: https://twitter.com/MLiebreich/status/1733376573875609629An overview of the COP28 Global Stocktake: https://unfccc.int/news/cop28-agreement-signals-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-fossil-fuel-eraThe Guardian’s piece on Aramco’s Oil Demand Sustainability Program: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/27/revealed-saudi-arabia-plan-poor-countries-oil Related Episodes Lord of the Net Zero Transition – Ep 110: Lord Adair Turner: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep110-adair-turner-lord-of-the-net-zero-transition/Investing in Climate Leadership – Ep 2: Rachel Kyte: https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-2-rachel-kyte/Lifting the Curtain on Climate Change Denial – Ep 141: Prof Naomi Oreske: https://www.cleaningup.live/lifting-the-curtain-on-climate-change-denial-ep-141-prof-naomi-oreskes/Is Shipping the Easiest "Hard-to-Abate" Sector? - Ep143: Johannah Christensen: https://www.cleaningup.live/is-shipping-the-easiest-hard-to-abate-sector-ep143-johannah-christensen/The Bridgetown Initiator – Ep 145: Prof Avinash Persaud: https://www.cleaningup.live/the-bridgetown-initiator-ep145-prof-avinash-persaud/

Dr Hannah Ritchie is a data scientist and science communicator. Her focus is on the largest problems that shape our world, and how to solve them. Most of her work focuses on environmental sustainability, including climate change, energy, food and agriculture, biodiversity, air pollution and deforestation. She is Deputy Editor and Lead Researcher at Our World in Data, where, during the COVID-19 pandemic, she built the Our World in Data COVID-19 information dashboard. She is also a researcher at the Oxford Martin Programme in Global Development. Her new book, Not the End of the World, is out in January 2024. Links Hannah’s TED talk – “Are We the Last Generation — or the First Sustainable One?”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl3VVrggKz4 Hannah’s WIRED piece – “Stop Telling Kids They’ll Die From Climate Change”: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/climate-crisis-doom Rupert Read - How I talk with children about climate breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lt0jCDtYSY Roger Hallam - Advice to Young People as they face Annihilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au33QX9I-Mg Roger Hallam at the Oxford Union: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQgBMSefgkM Hannah’s new book – Not the End of the World: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/453652/not-the-end-of-the-world-by-ritchie-hannah/9781784745004 Related Episodes "The Inconvenient Truth about Climate Science" - Ep93 with Roger Pielke : https://www.cleaningup.live/ep93-prof-roger-pielke-jr-the-inconvenient-truth-about-climate-science/ “Pushing Planetary Boundaries” – Ep49 with Johan Rockström: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep49-johan-rockstrom-pushing-planetary-boundaries/ “Poet of the Low-Carbon Transition” – Ep13 with Morgan Bazilian: https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-13-morgan-bazilian/"Lord of the Net Zero Transition" – Ep110 with Adair Turner: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep110-adair-turner-lord-of-the-net-zero-transition/ “From Moore's Law to Moo's Law” – Ep136 Jim Mellon: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep136-jim-mellon-from-moores-law-to-moos-law/

This week, Bryony speaks with Jason Anderson, Senior Program Director at ClimateWorks, who oversees the Governance & Diplomacy and Super Pollutant programs. His work spans efforts ranging from implementing the Paris Agreement to cleaning up dirty shipping and preventing methane leakage. Jason has over 25 years of experience in climate and clean energy, beginning in the solar energy conversion office at the U.S. Department of Energy, which led him to promote photovoltaics for rural electrification in Central America. Jason then worked in a range of climate organizations in Brussels for 15 years, ranging from Climate Action Network Europe to the Institute for European Environmental Policy to the World Wildlife Foundation (WWF). Jason was a lead author of the IPCC special reports on ozone and climate interactions, and on carbon capture and storage; in 2007 Jason was acknowledged for his contribution to the IPCC’s Nobel Peace Prize. Jason holds a Masters in Public Policy degree and a Masters in Science in energy and resources from the University of California Berkeley, and a degree in biological anthropology from Harvard University. Links Climateworks Governance & Diplomacy Program which Jason oversees: https://www.climateworks.org/programs/governance-diplomacy/ COP 28 Website: https://www.cop28.com/en/ Read a summary of the 1987 Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer: https://www.unep.org/ozonaction/who-we-are/about-montreal-protocol Read the US EPA’s summary of 2016 Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol: https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/recent-international-developments-under-montreal-protocol Explore the Climate and Clean Air Coalition’s work on short-lived climate pollutants: https://www.ccacoalition.org/content/short-lived-climate-pollutants Read about the Environmental Defense Fund’s new MethaneSAT: https://business.edf.org/insights/methane-satellites-usher-in-new-era-of-emissions-visibility-and-transparency/ Explore the Global Methane Pledge: https://www.globalmethanepledge.org/ Related Episodes Episode 143: Johannah Christensen – Is Shipping the Easiest “Hard-to-Abate” Sector? - https://www.cleaningup.live/is-shipping-the-easiest-hard-to-abate-sector-ep143-johannah-christensen/