Churchfront Podcast

Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN Here are the podcast notes: Churchfront Podcast — Erwin McManus Lead Pastor, Mosaic Church (Los Angeles) | Author, The Seven Frequencies of Communication Guest background: Erwin McManus has led Mosaic in LA for 35 years, building a congregation averaging in its twenties across 40+ nationalities. He's also an author, speaker, and has been a longtime participant in the Global Leadership Summit at Willow Creek. Key Topics What holds church leaders back The most common internal limitation isn't skill or resources — it's the lack of felt permission. Pastors are often communal and loyal by nature, which also makes them dependent on someone saying "it's okay to go for it." The church culture tends to withhold permission rather than grant it. This is a big reason conferences are so magnetic — they're not primarily about information, they're about permission receiving. People go to be in a room where they feel free to dream, risk, and believe. Erwin said a large part of his life's work has been giving people permission: to dream big, to risk, to try low-percentage ideas, and to fail without that defining their worth. Giving permission downward in the org chart Leaders often receive permission at a conference and then come back and tell their team what to do — which is not the same as giving permission. True permission-giving means creating space for people to grow, develop, dream, and execute in their own way. Key principle: hold tight to where you're going, hold loosely to how you get there. Someone can execute at a high level and still do it differently than you would — and that's okay. "It's All About People" vs. "You Can't Take Everyone With You" (from Mind Shift)McManus intentionally places these as Chapter 1 and Chapter 3 as a juxtaposition. Most leaders lean hard toward one and neglect the other. His advice: read both, figure out which one resonates more, then go apply the other one. That tension is where relational elegance lives. When people leave, they attack your character At Mosaic, after major style and culture shifts, the people who left rarely said "I don't like the music." They attacked Erwin's character because it made them the hero of their story. He found the exceptions refreshing — the people who were honest ("the church is too young," "too diverse," "too evangelistic") made it easy to respond. His approach: when you bring clarity as a leader, you're giving people the gift of choice. If they hate who you are now, they're going to really hate who you're becoming — so this is actually a good time to part ways. "If you're everything, you're nothing." The white interior at Mosaic Hollywood During the 18-month pandemic shutdown, Aaron McManus pitched painting everything white — stage, speakers, walls. No precedent existed for it. The idea was: when people come back, we don't want them having a nostalgicexperience — we want them going forward. The white space became a blank canvas for projection and lighting in every direction. It's now been widely imitated. (They did the same thing at their current Pasadena theater space, which was the longtime home of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.) The Seven Frequencies of Communication The seven frequencies are a framework for understanding how people communicate and how they're heard — not just outwardly but internally, since your inner voice shapes the health of your soul. The frequencies: Commander, Challenger, Healer, Motivator, Professor, Seer, Maven. This isn't a static identity — it's a dynamic range you can access. The goal is mastery over your frequencies, not just defaulting to your primary one. Every frequency also has a shadow — the dark version of the same trait. Commander → Dictator. Seer → Perfectionist. Challenger → Manipulator. Motivator → Performer. We tend to access our shadows with zero effort and have to work to access the authentic frequency. That's true of all positive human characteristics: courage, forgiveness, integrity all require work. Their negative counterparts (fear, bitterness, dishonesty) require nothing. Practical example: Erwin's wife Kim is a Commander. 42 years of "turn off the lights and lock the doors" instead of "I love you." He learned to translate that as I love you, keep me safe. His daughter Mariah is a Challenger — she's always trying to elevate him, but it reads as reprimand. Understanding the frequency means getting offended less. Hire for character, not for frequency When Jake asked whether leaders need Commander or Challenger to run a department, Erwin's answer was simple: if the character is right, the frequency will work itself out. A high-Motivator leader who doesn't have Commander will stil

Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN How to Disciple Your Team When You're Always On Stage - Part 2 Episode Description In part two of this worship pastor conversation, Matt and Sean Bennett tackle the practical realities of leading volunteers, building sustainable systems, and avoiding burnout. They discuss how to disciple a team of 30 people when you can only really pour into 5 or 6, why production should enhance worship without becoming the focus, and why planning doesn't limit the Holy Spirit - it actually creates space for him to move. Sean also shares why he has no desire to return to vocational ministry anytime soon, the "make it better" trap that burns out worship pastors, and the one simple rule that will save your sanity: Sundays are for service, not evaluation. In This Episode Discipleship at scale - You can't disciple 30 people on your own, so here's how to train disciples to be disciplers and create a sustainable leadership structure How production supports worship - Why the pendulum is swinging away from production-heavy worship, and how to let production enhance rather than distract Planning and the Holy Spirit - Why "I just want to be led by the Spirit" is a cop-out, and how good planning actually creates space for spontaneity The biggest pitfall - Why not keeping the main thing the main thing is the fastest way to burn out your team and lose sight of why you're actually there Practical tips for sustainability - Why Sundays are for service not evaluation, how to build yearly rhythms that include rest, and when to do acoustic sets to reset expectations Timestamps 00:00 - How to Disciple Your Team When You're Always On Stage 04:42 - How Production Supports Worship Without Becoming the Focus 09:53 - Systems and Planning: The Holy Spirit Shows Up on Monday Too 16:03 - The Biggest Pitfall: Not Keeping the Main Thing the Main Thing 19:10 - The "Make It Better" Trap and How to Avoid Burnout 23:23 - Practical Tips: Sundays Are for Service, Not Evaluation Key Quotes "You can't lead 30 people on your own. At some point you have to teach your leaders to be leaders and to lead other people." "The Holy Spirit can show up on a Monday morning planning meeting just as much as he can show up on a Sunday during a service." "Sundays are for service, not for evaluation. You can't change Sunday. The only thing you can do is look at it for next week." "When we stand before God someday, he's not going to ask us how many perfect services we put on. He's going to ask us what our hearts were like." Resources Mentioned Planning Center ProPresenter Tom Jackson Productions Carey Nieuwhof podcast episode (referenced) Connect With Us Visit churchfront.com for free church production training and resources This is part 2 of 2. If you missed part 1, go back and watch that for insights on what to look for when taking a new worship pastor role and navigating the tension between excellence and authenticity.

Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN What I Wish I Knew Before Becoming a Worship Pastor - Part 1 Episode Description Matt sits down with Sean Bennett, one of the newest members of the Churchfront team and a 16-year worship ministry veteran, to talk about what it's really like to lead worship and production teams. In part one of this two-part conversation, they discuss what to look for when stepping into a new worship pastor role, navigating the tension between excellence and authenticity, and how to lead a production team you can never actually be with. Both Matt and Sean have led in large churches, small churches, and multi-site churches. They've both been the worship pastor who also had to somehow lead the tech team. This conversation pulls back the curtain on the real challenges worship pastors face and offers practical wisdom for anyone in church production or worship leadership. In This Episode What to look for when interviewing for a worship pastor role - Why you need to see people at their worst before taking the job, and the red flags Sean wishes he'd paid more attention to Excellence vs. authenticity - How to define excellence in a way that doesn't lead to perfectionism, and why "doing the best you can with what you have" changes everything The worship/production leadership dilemma - Why churches should stop hiring one person to do both roles, and what to do if you're already in that position You're a pastor first - Why your primary objective is discipleship, not musicianship, and how that changes the way you lead your team Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction: Meet Sean Bennett 03:27 - What I'd Do Differently Stepping Into a New Role 08:04 - The Tension Between Excellence and Authenticity 13:16 - Leading a Production Team You Can Never Be With 18:15 - You're a Pastor First, Leader Second Key Quotes "Excellence is doing the best you can with what you have. That starts with being honest about what you actually have." "If you're leading people, you are a pastor. Your primary objective is discipleship - helping someone become more like Jesus." "There are some churches that could not pay me enough to work for them. And knowing that ahead of time is a good thing." Resources Mentioned Working Genius Assessment by Patrick Lencioni Churchfront free courses at churchfront.com Connect With Us Visit churchfront.com for free church production training and resources This is part 1 of 2. Watch part 2 for more on discipling your team, building sustainable systems, and avoiding burnout.

Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN Podcast Notes: Leadership & Scaling from Solo to 10+ Team Members with Jake Gosselin Overview Matt interviews Jake Gosselin about growing Churchfront from a one-person YouTube channel into a 10+ person church AVL systems integration company. They talk through leadership growth, hiring, delegation, and how to maintain vision while scaling, with direct parallels to church leadership. Key Topics & Timestamps Vision as the Foundation (00:00–05:32) Why clear vision needs to come before leadership development Churchfront's mission: "Equip church leaders in spaces with innovative solutions for thriving ministry." The importance of a mission statement, vision statement, and core values A two-day workshop at Ramsey to clarify and communicate vision Natural progression from YouTube creator to leading a 10-person team Key Quote: "If there is no clear vision of where you're trying to bring that organization, then everything else that we're about to talk about with leadership development and scaling an organization is kind of irrelevant because nobody knows where you're going." The Transition from Hands-On to Hands-Off (03:23–07:54) How Jake went from knowing everything to empowering team decision-making Building systems so problems get solved without senior leader involvement Decision-making frameworks around mission, vision, values, and finances When leaders should stay involved vs. when to delegate Team members now have authority and clarity to address issues independently High-risk or costly decisions still require senior leader involvement Key Quote: "It's so cool that my brain, even though I can keep up with a lot of things, I can no longer keep up with all of the cool things that are happening in the business and probably some of the headaches." Hiring A-Players (07:54–13:04) Essential hiring criteria: Mission alignment — genuinely excited about equipping church leaders Self-leadership — evidence of personal discipline (health, appearance, habits) Character references — take time to call references and vet thoroughly Working Genius Assessment — using Patrick Lencioni's framework to build balanced teams Team vetting — multiple team members interview candidates Churchfront Focus: Churchfront only works with churches (not corporate AV, DJ setups, or other venues). Candidates need to genuinely care about the local church. Working Genius Details: $25 assessment (WIDGET acronym) Identifies whether someone leans toward Wonder/Invention vs. Tenacity/Galvanizing traits Helps place people into roles that fit their strengths Recommended for church staff to understand their "genius zones" Key Quote: "If you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others very well." The Challenge of Letting Go (13:37–16:56) Why control is tempting but unsustainable for growth Long-term vision motivates delegation Media/marketing was Jake's original specialty and the hardest area for him to delegate to Matt Over time, Matt learned Jake's standards and expectations Hiring people who are better than you in specific areas Real Examples: Chris installs, rigs, mounts, and runs cable better than Jake Spencer models and drafts 3D spaces faster in Vectorworks James creates better schematics Senior Leader Principle: Leaders should understand all departments without controlling them. Spend a few hours learning the basics so you can make informed decisions about major investments. Church Application: Senior pastors should take Churchfront courses (a couple half-days) to be more informed than most lead pastors when making major AV decisions. Key Quote: "I'm motivated by the long-term vision of where this is going and how big the organization has to go that I'm just like, 'Yeah, I don't need to control everything. I don't want that life where I feel like I have to because I'm just going to be miserable about that.'" Present Leadership Without Micromanaging (17:46–19:40) Weekly team meetings where everyone shares what they're working on Asking: "What did you do last week?" and "What are you working on this week?" (3–10 minutes) Five minutes with each team member can make a huge impact Being present builds trust across the org chart Service businesses succeed based on team health and performance Jake shifted from solo productivity to supporting team members Key Quote: "That five minutes of interaction with one of your team members a week, no matter where they're at in the org chart, goes a long way because they're like, 'Oh wow, our senior leader knows me. I can trust him.'" High-Leverage Activities (19:50–23:16) Definition of leverage: low input, high output—like a tool that multiplies your strength. What Jake focuses on now: Pre-design c

Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN Carey Nieuwhof Interview - Podcast Notes Overview Conversation with Carey Nieuwhof about the shift in modern church worship from entertainment-focused to encounter-focused experiences, live streaming strategy, and church growth in the digital age. Key Themes 1. The Shift: Entertainment vs. Encounter The Problem with Modern Church Production Social media created a "copycat phase" where churches could suddenly see what megachurches were doing Churches adopted same equipment, same songs, same production values What was unique became ubiquitous - "we all became copies of each other" Gen Z is "the most marketed to generation in human history" and numb to production Quote: "Gen Z is the most marketed to generation in human history. And we're all kind of numb to the production. I don't think people are looking for hype. They're looking for hope." What People Actually Want Something real and tangible An experience of God, not just information about God Presence, not just presentation Transformation over information The Internet's Limitation Really good at delivering information (especially with AI) Cannot facilitate an encounter "There's something that happens in the room that doesn't happen online" 2. What "Encounter Over Entertainment" Looks Like The Tonal Shift Worship leaders being more sensitive to what's happening in the room, not just rehearsed transitions Preachers leaving space, not just hitting time marks Paying attention to what God might be doing (people crying, leaning in, visible reactions) Creating space to breathe Silence and Space "When I started in ministry, my goal was to get rid of as much silence in church as I could" Now: "Where else are you going to get silence? You don't get it unless you're in church" Don't have to fill every moment with words Can be silent or "noodle" on instruments while creating space Quote: "People's lives are so noisy and so crowded. I mean, we don't even sleep without white noise machines or anything like that. So where else are you going to get silence?" Evoke vs. Manipulate Can't plan a revival - it happens or it doesn't Job is to "set the table" and make space for the Holy Spirit Example: Great movies evoke genuine tears by accessing real emotions Cheap manipulation feels different Quote: "It's not our job as Christians to manipulate. It's our job possibly to evoke, to say, 'I'm going to set the table. I can't control the Holy Spirit.'" 3. The Liturgy Issue Modern Church is "Liturgically Malnourished" Liturgy = order of service (not an outdated term) Modern church handles joy and praise well Missing: contemplation, confession, lamentation, reflection Lost practices: prayers of confession, prayers of the people Carey's Confession Presbyterian background included prayers of approach and confession As church became attractional, prayer became "just an opportunity to clear the set for the sermon" Regrets thin prayers: "God, it's so good to be here today. We thank you so much. Amen." Quote: "It's like confess your sins to one another and you will be healed. We don't do that anymore. What if we did that?" Not Either/Or, But Both/And Keep good lighting, sound, production, and musicians who can play Add breathing room, texture, color, tone, mood Use liturgical calendar and historic practices adapted to modern context Don't approach Sunday as "slots to fill" Creative Freedom 52 Sundays = 52 blank canvases Already do this well at Easter and Christmas Can be more creative without confusing people Example: Good Friday Service Ended in darkness with no announcement Faded to black and stayed there People sat in uncomfortable silence, then slowly left "I wanted them to feel that discomfort... if you can even get a small sampling of that" Easter Sunday picked up in darkness, then sunrise/resurrection 4. Live Streaming Strategy Who Should Live Stream? Not every church needs to live stream everything Need good musicians to sound great online (around 400-500 attendance to have talent base) Need separate mix for online vs. in-house Poor production = "school play" - only interesting to those directly involved Quote: "A lot of churches, and these are well-meaning, beautiful Christian people. If you don't have the talent in production or in worship, you sound like a school play." Alternatives Stream just the message On-demand after, mixed in post-production Audio only if video isn't good Consider what strangers stumbling on feed would think The Discovery Argument Pre-COVID minority of churches streamed Now "everybody you want to reach is online" "All of non-Christian America, all the nuns, all the duns, all the atheists, all the agnostics, they're on the internet"