Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan

In this episode of Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack explore the harrowing case of J.J. Vallow. They reveal the disturbing details of J.J.'s death, the challenges faced by forensic pathologists in examining J.J.'s remains, the presence of GHB in his system, the crucial role of preserving evidence, and the potential for uncovering latent or plastic prints on surfaces involved in the case. Please join us on Thursday for part-two when we go in depth on Tylee Ryan’s autopsy. Time-codes: 00:00 - Introduction. 00:55 - Joseph and Dave discuss the tragic fates of J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan. 01:10 - Dave shares his emotional struggle discussing the case's horrific details. 03:00 - Joseph describes courtroom reactions and limitations on gruesome evidence presentation. 04:10 - Dr. Garth Warren's role in transporting J.J. and Tylee's remains for examination. 04:40 - Explanation of bodies found in separate locations in Chad Daybell's backyard. 06:35 - The concept of clandestine graves and significance of the children's burial locations. 8:35 - The contrasting, peaceful burial site of JJ. 9:30 - Differences in the treatment of the children's bodies and what it reveals about the perpetrators. 11:35 - Police observations leading to the discovery of J.J.'s remains. 11:50 - The careful excavation process at crime scenes using gridding and documentation. 13:30 - The state of J.J.'s remains found wrapped in plastic bags. 14:20 - Joseph describes the emotional impact of finding the person they were searching for. 16:00 - Joseph explains careful handling of remains at the scene. 17:00 - The importance of maintaining a chain of custody for the body. 19:00 - Despite decomposition, J.J.'s recognizable face and the preference for scientific confirmation. 21:15 - Discussion on toxicology limitations and GHB presence in J.J.'s system. 24:05 - Joseph shares experiences with hesitancy during autopsies and preserving evidence. 25:50 - The process of examining J.J.'s remains while avoiding compromising evidence. 28:15 - The importance of considering fingerprints on adhesive materials like tape. 29:20 - Unraveling duct tape or bags on a victim's body to determine the cause of death. 31:00 - Heartbreaking details of J.J. Vallow's death and his struggle before dying. 33:00 - Dave's sadness about J.J. Vallow's suffering and awareness during his death. 33:30 - Joe announces a follow-up episode discussing the death of Tylee Ryan in depth.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Body Bags, host Joseph Scott Morgan and co-host Dave Mack delve into the emotionally challenging experiences and unique difficulties faced by death investigators and first responders during mass shooting events. They emphasize the importance of maintaining a systematic approach while navigating the emotional and logistical complexities of these events, they discuss the challenges of identifying victims in various settings, explore the significance of conducting autopsies in cases of mass shootings or multiple homicides, how to address religious objections, and the role of medical legal authorities in making final decisions. Time-codes: 00:00 - Introduction. 01:10 - JoeScott's friend's experience with the Columbine massacre. 02:30 - Discussing being inside the tape on a mass homicide. 03:55 - Broad range of incidents classified as mass shootings. 05:05 - Mention of H. Wayne Carver III and Sandy Hook case. 06:05 - Mass fatality events are not always defined by a specific number of victims. 07:00 - Joseph's involvement in the Buckhead shooting investigation. 08:20 - Mentally processing mass shooting crime scenes in everyday environments. 10:10 - First responders' life-saving mode and gathering information. 11:55 - Challenge of identifying victims in a mass shooting. 14:40 - Identifying victims in different settings (schools vs. public spaces). 15:50 - Increased difficulties faced by death investigators during mass shooting events. 17:30 - Emotional toll of being a death investigator in mass casualty situations. 18:10 - Potential dangers for first responders during mass shooting events. 20:40 - The concept of secondary devices and staying vigilant at crime scenes. 23:25 - Challenges in handling multiple victims and assessing postmortem changes. 25:20 - Use of Tyvek suits for protection during investigations. 26:35 - Composition of investigation teams and processing bodies at crime scenes. 28:05 - Importance of addressing legal requirements and thorough documentation. 31:05 - Moral and legal responsibilities of forensic investigators. 32:45 - Need for autopsies even when the perpetrator is known. 33:20 - Handling religious objections to autopsies. 36:00 - Medical legal authorities can override religious objections to autopsies. 37:30 - Outro.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this emotional and powerful episode of the Body Bags podcast, hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard delve into the emotional challenges faced by medical legal death investigators, specifically when it comes to the difficult task of notifying next of kin about the death of a loved one. Joe Scott shares his personal experiences and insights on how the emotional aspect of death notifications can impact both the investigator and grieving family members, the lasting impact these moments have on both the families and himself, how science plays a role in his job but its limitations in dealing with the emotional aspects of death notification, as well as the importance of mercy and compassion in the face of death. Time-codes: 00:00 - Introduction. 03:30 - Joe Scott's first experience with a death notification. 06:10 - Improvements in emotional training for death investigators. 07:00 - Challenges of handling multiple cases and notifications. 08:55 - Families' need for confirmation of the deceased's location. 12:00 - The importance of timeliness in death notifications. 15:45 - Being vigilant during investigations and protecting loved ones' privacy. 17:25 - Balancing speed and thoroughness in death investigations. 19:05 - Family members as key sources of information for cases. 20:00 - The limited information retention of grieving families. 22:25 - The lasting impact of death notifications on families. 25:00 - Delivering death news directly. 26:50 - Notifying a family of a second son's death within six months. 28:55 - JoScott’s love for science and its role in his work but its limitations when it comes to dealing with the emotional aspects of death notification. 31:20 - The necessity of accurate deceased identification and location knowledge. 33:00 - Keeping information simple for grieving families. 33:45 - The need for compassion and mercy during emotionally low moments. 36:00 - Joe Scott's personal struggle with PTSD and the end of his career. 38:55 - Outro.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of the Body Bags we delve into the chilling case of Elizabeth Capaldi, who was murdered by her husband, Stephen Capaldi. Capaldi, 57, has been sentenced to 22 to 44 years in prison for the murder of his wife, Elizabeth "Beth" Capaldi, 55, in October 2022. Incriminating evidence was found on his cellphone, including internet searches on how to get away with murder. Hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the unusual factors that contributed to the crime, including infidelity and a comic book obsession, the meticulous research Stephen conducted before the murder, the initial police response to Beth's missing person report, filed by her daughter Emma, and how inconsistencies during police interviews can raise red flags and lead to a suspect's downfall. Time-codes: 00:00 - Introduction. 01:07 - Overview of Beth Capaldi's murder case. 02:00 - Joseph asks Dave about his experience with comic books. 03:10 - Joseph's childhood love for comic books. 05:00 - Driving factors in Stephen Capaldi's case: infidelity and comic book obsession. 06:20 - Alternative ways Stephen could have ended his marriage. 08:15 - Sinister research Stephen did prior to Beth's disappearance. 11:50 - Emma Capaldi involves the police after talking to her father. 14:50 - JoScott explains how investigators approach missing person cases. 16:30 - Significance of observing behavior patterns in missing person's cases. 17:40 - Police questioning spouses and detecting deviations from their stories. 20:11 - Suspicious internet searches made by Stephen Capaldi. 33:10 - Joseph describes the intimate nature of the murder. 35:10 - Methods researched to dispose of Beth's body. 36:20 - Bloody aftermath in the basement and timeline of murder. 38:30 - Emotional impact of the crime scene. 45:15 - Outro.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Gannon Stauch, an 11-year-old boy from Colorado, was found dead nearly two months after he was reported missing by his stepmother, Letecia Stauch. Gannon was initially reported as a runaway, but was later classified as a missing/endangered person. Surveillance footage revealed Letecia leaving with Gannon and returning without him, raising suspicions, and then Gannon's body was found in Florida. His stepmother now faces multiple charges, including first-degree murder. In this episode of Body Bags, hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the timeline of the case, from Gannon's disappearance in Colorado Springs to the discovery of his body in a suitcase in Florida, the search warrants and investigation process in Gannon's bedroom, the challenges faced by the medical examiner when examining the body, and determining the cause of death. Time-codes: 00:00 - Introduction. 01:40 - Overview of Letitia Stauch's ongoing trial. 03:55 - Timeline of Gannon's disappearance and investigation. 05:25 - Discovery of Gannon's body in Florida. 08:00- Difficulty in determining postmortem interval and medical examiner's ability to ascertain information. 10:10- Blood detection methods at crime scenes and investigating scenes with cleansers used. 14:20 - Role of forensic pathologists in death investigations and inspecting a child's bedroom for foul play. 17:15 - Search warrant limitations in a residence and police walkthrough. 19:35 - Blood evidence found in Gannon's bedroom and challenges faced by the medical examiner. 21:50 - Establishing identification and cause of death in Gannon's case. 24:10 - Shared jurisdiction and forensic pathologist's expertise in tropical environments. 27:40 - Establishing a timeline of Gannon's death and managing emotions during trial testimonies. 31:00 - Forensic pathologist's clinical and objective testimony and Gannon's injuries. 33:30 - Presentation of Gannon's injuries in court and quantifying drug levels in decomposed bodies. 34:25 - Testing for substances in decomposed bodies, including maggots. 35:45 - Medication found in Gannon's system and detailing his injuries. 37:30 - Differentiating between lacerations and sharp force injuries and interpreting wounds on decomposed bodies. 39:20 - Importance of medical examiner's experience. 39:35 - Outro.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In part one of this two-part series on Body Bags hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack take listeners through the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln and its aftermath. They describe the chaos at Ford's Theater, the attending physicians' struggles as they assessed Lincoln's condition with limited medical knowledge and tools, the removal of Lincoln's body, and the irony of increased security after the assassination. They also delve into the autopsy process, highlighting the physicians' extensive experience and the challenges they faced. Time-codes: 00:20 - Start of show. 01:35 - John Wilkes Booth's actions in the theater. 02:00 - Immediate response to the shooting. 02:35 - Lincoln's condition when the surgeon arrived. 03:15 - Initial confusion among the audience. 04:00 - Booth's calculated timing for the shooting. 05:30 - Surgeon realizes Lincoln's gunshot wound location. 05:55 - Limitations of medical knowledge and tools. 07:40 - Lincoln stops breathing and has dilated pupils. 08:10 - Surgeon removes clot, Lincoln breathes again. 09:20 - Difficulty transporting Lincoln to the White House. 09:55 - Physicians try to locate the lead ball in Lincoln's head. 11:30 - Attempt to drain blood and reduce intracranial pressure. 12:00 - Lincoln's death at 7:30 a.m. 13:50 - Lincoln remains unconscious throughout the ordeal. 16:40 - Removal of Lincoln's body from the boarding house. 17:15 - Absence of security and irony of increased security. 18:00 - Lincoln's tendency to dismiss security. 18:40 - Lincoln's body conveyed to White House for autopsy. 19:55 - Handsaw used to open Lincoln's skull. 21:10 - Delicate nature of dissecting the brain. 22:15 - Autopsy challenges: lack of electricity, reliance on touch. 23:00 - Physicians' extensive experience in dealing with trauma. 29:40 - Modern gunshot wound examination process. 30:30 - Role of x-rays in understanding bullet trajectories. 31:15 - Autopsy confirms nothing could have saved Lincoln. 32:55 - Limitations of 1800s medical treatments. 33:30 - John Wilkes Booth's autopsy. 34:50 - Physician's anger and resentment towards Booth. 35:30 - Booth's body relocation before returning to family. 36:05 - Outro.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In part one of this two-part series on Body Bags we delve into the assassination and autopsy of President Abraham Lincoln. Hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack analyze the character and motivations of John Wilkes Booth, the layout of Ford's Theater, and the negligent behavior of John Parker, assigned to protect the president. They provide a fascinating explanation of the Philadelphia Deringer's firing mechanism, including its unique preloading process and firing sequence as well as going into Booth's meticulous planning, highlighting his knowledge of the play's comedic timing, Lincoln's potential focus on the orchestra pit, and the painstaking preparation involved in using the Deringer. Throughout this captivating episode, listeners uncover the chilling details and lasting impact of one of the most infamous moments in American history. Time-codes: 00:25 - JoScott’s surprise at visiting presidential assassination locations. 01:30 - Description of Ford's Theater and the assassination scene. 02:20 - Introduction of Lincoln's assassination and autopsy topic. 06:10 - Discussion of access to the president during Lincoln's time. 07:10 - How did Booth gain access to Lincoln's box at Ford's Theater? 08:45 - Lincoln's well-publicized attendance at the theater. 10:35 - Comparison of past and present presidential security measures. 11:10 - John Parker, the inept officer assigned to protect Lincoln. 13:40 - Background on John Wilkes Booth and his Southern cause support. 16:00 - Long-lasting impact of Lincoln's assassination on the country. 18:15 - Specifics of the weapon used by John Wilkes Booth. 21:35 - Importance of caliber and limitations of Booth's weapon. 23:40 - Preloading the Philadelphia Deringer and its hammer mechanism. 24:55 - Comparison of the Deringer's firing sequence to modern weapons. 26:20 - Demonstration of the Deringer's firing sequence and sound. 27:10 - Proximity of Booth to Lincoln when he fired the weapon. 27:50 - Booth's understanding of the play's comedic timing and assassination planning. 29:40 - Discussion of Booth's planning and escape plan. 30:30 - Process of loading the Derringer and importance of seating the bullet properly. 32:15 - Please join us next time for part two!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Summary: In this episode of Body Bags we delve into a baffling triple homicide case with multiple murder scenes and explore the backgrounds of the victims and suspect, Elias Gudino, who has a history of drug trafficking, and consider potential motives for the murders. Hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the challenges of kidnapping, restraining, and controlling multiple victims, as well as the significance of the chosen dumping grounds. They examine forensic details, such as rigor mortis and postmortem lividity, to determine the crime scene and the sequence of events. Shownotes: 00:20 - Introduction to a triple homicide case. 01:22 - Overview of the triple homicide, including bound, gagged, and shot victims. 04:00 - Speculation on whether one individual could carry out this crime spree and comparisons to other multiple homicide cases. 05:25 - The challenge of controlling, restraining, and transporting multiple victims as a single perpetrator. 07:05 - Introducing the suspect, Elias Gudino, and examining his background, including drug trafficking past. 08:05 - Roadway access and its importance in this case, along with crime scene locations and their potential significance. 09:50 - Forensics of the case and insights on where the crime began, postmortem lividity, and rigor mortis. 12:15 - Coordination when investigating multiple crime scenes and commonalities between them. 13:05 - The ages of the victims and possible connections between Gudino and the victims. 20:00 - Exploring where the crime began and how forensics can provide answers. 22:10 - How rigor mortis and algor mortis can be indicators in the investigation. 27:05 - Timeline for a body to become flaccid again and how it can be a useful clue for investigators. 29:45 - Were the victims at the crime scene all night or were they dumped just before the call came in? 30:45 - The limited illumination at the crime scene and how darkness plays a role in the perpetrator's actions. 31:15 - Different materials used for restraining the victims, types of knots, and the type of gag used on the victims. 32:40 - Examining casings and projectiles to link crime scenes to specific weapons. 33:45 - Questioning the perpetrator count and crime sequence 33:55 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of "Body Bags," we unravel the harrowing story of Shaye Groves, a woman consumed by her obsession with serial killers and ultimately implicated in the brutal murder of her boyfriend, Frankie Fitzgerald. Delving into the chilling fascination that permeated her life and relationships, the hosts uncover the disturbing evidence that led to the gruesome crime. Hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack explore the challenges investigators face when encountering an unfamiliar crime scene and the unsettling environment they discover including a macabre collection of serial killer images and the couple's history of violent, videotaped sex acts. They discuss Shaye Groves' possible premeditation of the murder, her manipulation and blackmail of previous partners through recorded sex acts, and her meticulous execution of the crime, such as using bleach to clean up the scene. Shownotes: 00:20 - Intro to case. 02:10 - Dave Mack gives background and overview of case. 04:10 - What impact did having serial killer images in her home have on Shay Groves and her mindset? 05:25 - The disturbing nature of Shay Groves' obsession and how it relates to the crime and her life. 07:10 - Shay Groves and Frankie Fitzgerald's romantic relationship and Shaye's controlling nature. 09:25 - Challenges investigators face when entering an unfamiliar crime scene and disturbing evidence and how their first impressions can impact their investigation. 11:50 - The couple's history of violent sex acts captured on video and how this escalated. 14:00 - The use of bleach in morgue cleanups and how the smell of bleach can linger, connecting it to the crime scene. 15:10 - Possibility of Shea Groves planning the murder and the use of bleach to clean the crime scene. 19:50 - Shea's obsession with serial killers, dark imagery, and the types of knives used in the murder. 21:55 - JoScott talks about the differences between single-edged and double-edged knife wounds. 24:40 - The catastrophic loss of blood that led to Frankie's death and Shaye’s possible motives and methods during the attack. 26:40 - Determining if any wounds were inflicted post-mortem and whether the crime was a torture event or a dark fantasy acted out by Shaye. 28:54 - Outro.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Levi Axtell, a Minnesota man, murdered elderly Lawrence V. Scully, whom he accused of stalking his young daughter. Scully was convicted in 1979 of sexually assaulting a 6 year old girl and went to prison for 2 years. When carrying out the crime, Axtell used unconventional weapons in his attack – a shovel and a large moose antler – leaving a gruesome crime scene behind. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the perplexing case of a brutal attack involving a shovel and moose antlers. They explore the difficulties faced by forensic investigators in differentiating between injuries caused by these unconventional weapons, while also examining the chaotic nature and rapid timeline of the assault, as well as the psychological aspects driving the attacker to use such odd weapons, and how the investigation unfolded in this bizarre and gruesome case. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:05 - Background and overview of case 2:22 - Moose antlers being used as weapons. 3:55 - Levi Axtell and Lawrence Scully had been in conflict for years and Axtell eventually got an order of protection from him. What does that mean and what does it take to get an order of protection? 6:45 - Finding registered sex offenders in your area. 8:00 - Axtell got an order of protection from Scully which was then dismissed leading to heightened frustration and alertness. 10:10 - Scully’s criminal history. 13:05 - Axtell’s previous offenses. 13:50 - How did the whole situation escalate? 14:25 - Imagine a scenario where a blood-covered man confesses to murder at a police station. 15:30 - The role of 911 in reporting crimes. 16:40 - The police must ensure the safety of the suspect and others in the vicinity. 19:40 - Start asking questions. 21:10 - The suspect is agitated, how does that affect his interaction with the police? 22:30 - The use of a shovel in this case and how that may be used as evidence by Axtell's defense. 24:25 - Has JoScott Seen people use garden tools as weapons? 27:00 - How do forensic experts analyze and decipher complex crime scenes with widespread blood, defensive injuries, and splatter? 31:35 - How do forensic experts distinguish wounds from unusual weapons? 36:00 - How does the unique shape and weight of a moose antler influence its use as a weapon and the resulting injuries compared to other blunt force weapons? 39:10 - How the short time frame and frenzied nature of the attack may impact how police or forensic experts approach and investigate the crime scene. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of "Body Bags," Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack delve into the chilling case of 76-year-old Leon Hignite, who was found abandoned in his home with gruesome injuries. They explore the forensic details of blood spatter patterns and analyze the severity of Leon's injuries, the challenges faced by the medical team, and the disturbing circumstances surrounding the incident. Time Codes: 0:00 - Introduction 01:17 - Overview and background 04:28 - Dave questions how the blood on the ceiling and wall could have resulted from Leon's supposed fall in the bathroom. 05:07 - Leon's limited ability to communicate due to his blindness and hearing impairment. 06:17 - The autopsy reveals that Leon sustained at least 30 blunt force impacts to his head. 07:42 - Paramedics find Leon in a deplorable state on the bedroom floor, surrounded by blood and waste. 09:46 - Leon’s feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. 10:10 - Leon is found after three days. 10:41 - Leon's medical condition, age, blindness, and other health issues. 11:04 - The police arrive to serve a search warrant and discover the house set on fire. 11:56 - Medical intervention needed for Leon's head trauma. 13:14 - Carol Hignite's claims she gave Leon ice chips to hydrate him. 14:39 - Were the injuries Leon sustained typical of a fall? 16:10 - The forensic implications of overlapping contusions and fractured areas. 18:05 - The pink hammer. 20:47 - The forensic challenges of blood being found on the hammer. 22:14 - The differences between blood spatter from impact vs. cast-off. 24:01 - Blood velocities and their relation to various weapons. 25:30 - What happened those 3 days before 911 was called? 27:40 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stephen Smith died mysteriously in 2015 in South Carolina. Though his death was initially ruled a hit-and-run, it has more recently gained attention following the 2021 murders of Maggie and Paul Murdaugh, which lead to the reopening of his case two years ago. The Murdaugh family was mentioned in the initial investigation, but no charges were filed. Smith was found dead with a large gash on his forehead, a partially dislocated shoulder, and cuts and bruises on his hand. Authorities initially thought Smith had been shot, but no bullet or fragments were found. In March 2023, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) officially ruled Smith's death as a homicide. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and reporter Dave Mack discuss what types of injuries one sustains when hit by a vehicle, why Joe and Dave think the perpetrator was likely a local, exhumation, mirror strikes, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:26 - Encountering unexpected road obstacles 4:30 - Open homicide with lots to still investigate 6:45 - What happens when you call 911? 11:10 - Misidentifying a gunshot wound as a hit and run 13:00 - Joe describes types of injuries and evidence left on a vehicle when it strikes a pedestrian 20:40 - Why Joe and Dave think the perpetrator was likely a local 22:10 - Besides head trauma, what other physical damage would you expect to see in a hit and run case? 23:40 - What is a mirror strike? 27:25 - Exhumation and its challenges 34:00 - The importance of thorough examination including high-quality imaging and analysis 38:25 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Edward LeClair, aged 57, was on trial in Denton, Texas for five counts of sexual abuse. While being read his conviction, he chugged an entire bottle of water in the courtroom. LeClair was then transported to a holding cell and later when checked on by the bailiff was found unconscious. Emergency services were immediately called and LeClair was transported to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss LeClair’s crimes, his decision to take his own life, sodium nitrate, what it does to your body, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:17 - Background 4:45 - Sentence for going after a minor 6:30 - The bottle of water 9:45 - LeClair’s decision to take his own life 11:50 - Would he have been allowed in with his own bottle of water? 14:55 - What substance was in the bottle? 17:50 - Sodium Nitrate 20:50 - What does Sodium Nitrate do to your body? 25:00 - Other times Sodium Nitrate has been used and what the toxicology tells us 28:15 - Can you reverse the effects of poisons? Could LeClair’s death have been prevented? 30:10 - Wrap up See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On March 15th in 44 B.C. Julius Caesar, the Roman dictator, was assassinated by a group of senators who stabbed him 23 times during a Senate meeting. The senators claimed Caesar's concentration of power threatened the Roman Republic. However, their efforts to restore the Republic failed, and the aftermath led to a civil war and the rise of the Roman Empire. His death also led to the earliest recorded autopsy in history. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss the purpose of autopsies, Caesar's life, and leadership, the details of how he was attacked, the injuries sustained, and how this event shaped the course of history. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:12 - Background and overview 2:35 - What’s the purpose of an autopsy? 4:05 - Caesar’s life and work as a leader 7:15 - The day of Caesar’s assassination 9:15 - How the attack happened 10:50 - Caesar’s autopsy 13:20 - After someone is stabbed multiple times does blood keep flowing or will it eventually stop after a few hours? 17:10 - Could the doctor have attributed Caesar’s death to blood loss? 20:10 - What was the assassination plan for Caesar? Were there other injuries and what was Caesar's condition afterward? 22:10 - Where was the autopsy done? 23:40 - The start of 3D modeling 25:30 - How this event shaped history 27:05 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Megan Hess, a former owner of the Colorado funeral home, Sunset Mesa, has pleaded guilty to secretly dissecting corpses and selling body parts without consent from relatives of the deceased. Hess and her mother, Shirley Koch, launched a non-profit donor service organization in 2009. They forged dozens of body donor consent forms and sold the body parts for profit. They have both been convicted and sentenced for their crimes. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss the purpose of funeral homes, how one decides what is done with a loved one's remains, the legal procedures for deciding what is done with bodily remains, using bodies for medical purposes, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 0:45 - Background 2:40 - What is the purpose of a funeral home? 5:05 - Gross Anatomy 5:50 - Deciding what is done with a body after death 8:10 - Donor Services and Megan Hess 13:35 - Can you tell if someone’s ashes aren’t real? 16:00 - Legal procedures for remains 18:10 - Non-transplant anatomical donation 19:30 - Jeff Peacock and finding out his parents were victims of Hess 23:40 - Body parts sold having certain diseases 25:30 - Using bodies for medical purposes 27:50 - Sentencing for Megan Hess and her mother Shirley Koch 28:30 - Wrap-upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Debbie Collier, a Georgia resident, is reported missing on September 10th, 2022 after sending her daughter, Amanda, a Venmo payment for $2,385 with a message saying, “They are not going to let me go, love you.” She was found dead the next day in a ravine more than an hour north from her home. The newly released autopsy report reveals that when her body was found 80% of it was covered in second and third degree burns. Which is one of many reasons why the public was surprised to hear that the death has been ruled a suicide. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss Collier’s burns, the state of her clothing, the lack of debris found in her trachea, why police have ruled this a suicide, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 0:52 - Background and overview of case 4:45 - Debbie Collier’s clothing and what it tells us 8:45 - The autopsy report and Collier’s burns 11:30 - Burning to kill vs. burning to cover something up 13:05 - No evidence of debris in her trachea 15:05 - Police ruling this a suicide 18:25 - Carboxyhemoglobin level and hydrocodone 19:50 - Is there an indication that the burning took place after death? 22:10 - Manner of death 24:00 - Was this really a suicide? 25:40 - Do police sometimes downplay what they’ve seen to the public? 29:00 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We revisit the Murdaugh trial in which South Carolina lawyer, Alex Murdaugh, is currently facing trial for the murder of his wife Maggie, and his son Paul. As the trial continues, we are learning more information about the nature of the crimes and how exactly they played out. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss the specifics of both Paul and Maggie’s injuries, why the prosecution uses diagrams vs. photographs when showing evidence in court, whether Paul had any defensive wounds, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:18 - Background and overview of the case 2:35 - Using diagrams in court vs. photographs 6:05 - Paul Murdaugh’s injuries 11:15 - The second shot to Paul Murdaugh’s head 14:50 - Paul’s face left intact 19:25 - Were there any type of defensive wounds on Paul? 20:30 - Maggie Murdaugh’s injuries 23:30 - Stippling around Maggie’s wounds 26:00 - Shot to the abdomen 29:00 - Was this overkill? 31:00 - Wrap up and outroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On May 9th, 2021, in St. John’s County, Florida, 13 year old Tristyn Bailey goes missing. She was last seen by her sister just after midnight and is reported missing that morning by her family. The police and community begin searching for her that same day and at 6 p.m. that night her body is found by a neighbor in a remote area in the woods. She had been stabbed more than 100 times. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss the timeline of this case, how police track and identify suspects using surveillance footage, the different kinds of stab wounds, the importance of taking photographs of potential suspects, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:32 - Background and overview of case 3:40 - Thrill killing 6:20 - The timeline 8:50 - How can investigators get blood out of something that’s already been washed? 13:30 - How do police identify and track a suspect from footage used for evidence? 16:00 - Mother’s day and siblings not finding Tristyn in her bedroom 17:40 - Different kinds of stab wounds 23:00 - Presenting medical evidence in court and defensive vs. non-defensive wounds 26:10 - Tristyn attempting to fight off the killer 27:20 - Importance of taking photographs of potential suspects and all parts of their body 30:40 - Aiden Fucci 32:50 - Aspects of premeditation and Fucci’s mother’s awareness of the crime 34:50 - Fucci pleading not guilty, his story constantly changing, and then finally pleading guilty 36:30 - Wrap-up and outroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ana Walshe, a property manager for Tishman Speyer, goes missing January 1, 2023. She is reported missing by her employer and by her husband Brian Walshe. Her husband is arrested on January 8th and charged with misleading the police investigation. Police then obtained a search warrant to the couple’s home where in the basement they find a damaged and bloody knife. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the timeline of Ana’s disappearance, the bloody knife found in the basement, the logistics of dismembering a body, looking at suspects deviating from their behavior, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:18 - Background and overview of the case 2:45 - The disappearance timeline 4:20 - Bloody knife in the basement 7:20 - Evidence found from blood 10:40 - The husband and tracking his moves 14:20 - Hacksaw 15:20 - Dismembering a body 18:45 - Determining the search radius for a missing body 23:00 - Suspects deviating from their regular behaviors 26:20 - Investigators relying on intuition 28:20 - Death threats 29:45 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the evening of February 16th, 2022 Jared Bridegan is dropping off his daughter at his ex-wife’s home. On the drive over he has to stop because there’s a tire in the middle of the road and he cannot go around it. He steps out of the car to go and move it whereupon he is shot multiple times. Henry Tenon has been charged with Bridegan’s murder. His only known connection to Bridegan is that he is a former tenant of a property owned by Bridegan’s ex-wifes current husband. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the longevity and complexity of this case, the logistics of the shooting itself, the charges against the suspect, the evidence found from the tire and shell casings, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:18 - Background and overview of the case 3:25 - The logistics of the shooting 6:25 - Charges against the suspect 10:00 - Tenon’s truck 11:15 - Evidence from the tire 13:15 - Car rims and fingerprints 15:40 - Planning and pre-meditation 20:20 - The choke point and Florida climate 24:55 - Shell casings 30:15 - Video surveillance and tracking down the owner of the blue truck 32:45 - The longevity and complexity of this case 35:00 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

South Carolina lawyer, Alex Murdaugh, is currently facing trial for the murder of his wife and son. Due to the gruesome nature of the crime, people have begun to look extensively into the family’s history and background and in doing that have found connections with them and other deaths that had been initially ruled as accidents or deaths from natural causes. However, upon further investigation it seems that there may be something much darker at play. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and special guest co-host Dave Mack discuss the Murdaugh family history and background, the various victims of this family, the injuries each of them sustained, how you marry anecdotal evidence with physical evidence, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 2:30 - Background and overview of case 6:50 - The 911 call 9:50 - Victims were shot with different weapons 11:40 - Injuries sustained by Paul 15:05 - Differences ammunition makes in injuries 19:10 - Gloria Satterfield 21:20 - What happened the day that Gloria Satterfield died? 25:00 - Tying together anecdotal evidence and physical evidence 28:20 - Steven Smith 31:20 - Steven’s injuries 35:30 - Using a car as a weapon 37:00 - How are the Murdaugh’s connected to Steven’s death? 38:30 - Mallory Beach 42:45 - How Mallory’s death shined a light on the Murdaugh family 44:35 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sasha Krause, a Mennonite school teacher in New Mexico, goes missing on January 18th, 2020. About a month later a camper goes out to Sunset Crater Visitor Center, an area 20 miles outside of Flagstaff Arizona, to gather firewood and stumbles upon a body near her campsite. After an autopsy, they identify this body as Sasha Krause. Another month later, Mark Gooch, a U.S. Air Force member is arrested for her murder. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the significance of how the victim’s body was found, the clothing that was missing, the temperature, and the connection between the victim and the suspect. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:25 - Background and overview of case 4:50 - Where did the investigators start? 7:40 - Setting up a timeline 9:30 - Discovering Sasha Krause’s body 10:50 - Processing the crime scene 12:35 - Drag marks 17:15 - Body position + temperature 24:30 - Finding a suspect: Mark Gooch 27:25 - Putting the evidence together 28:45 - Significance of missing clothing and lack of DNA evidence 30:50 - Fingerprints 34:05 - Gooch makes an effort to hide his movements from that night 37:10 - Wrap upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four University of Idaho students are brutally murdered in their home in Moscow, Idaho on November 13th, 2022. Police suspect that the murder took place between 3am-4 and their bodies are discovered by a friend that same morning around noon. Investigators believe that the murder weapon was a knife of some sort. More leads have been uncovered by police and investigators in the past weeks and the hunt is still on for a primary suspect. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard continue discussing the details of this unfolding case following the 19 page affidavit detailing evidence collected so far. Joe and Jackie discuss moving evidence as big as a mattress, the KA-BAR knife sheath and matching up knife inflicted wounds, history of KA-BAR knives, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:45 - Reopening the details of this case - 19-page affidavit dropped over the weekend. 2:30 - Multiple forms of evidence have been recovered including but not limited to DNA, Cell Phone, CCTV Footage, Footprints, and the Knife Sheath. 4:00 - What is Touch DNA? 7:32 - Has Blood evidence been found? 9:50 - What volume of DNA is needed to match a suspect from the evidence collected so far? 12:35 - Differentiation in wounds on the victim's bodies. 16:55 - Examining the mattresses that the bodies were found on, what they can reveal to a forensic expert. 21:45 - Proper handling of a piece of evidence as big as a person's mattress. 27:04 - How do you match up wounds on a victim to a knife that may have been used to inflict those injuries? A KA-BAR knife sheath was found discarded on one of the victim's beds. 31:47 - Before an Autopsy is conducted you perform an AP and a Lateral X-ray. 35:20 - History of the KA-BAR name and model. 37:07 - A footprint was discovered outside the surviving roommate's door. Investigators matched up the print to a Van skate shoe. 40:39 - footprints can tell you about how a person walks, what part of the foot they walk on, and the persons gait. 42:00 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Joseph Scott Morgan was on his first date with his wife Kim she asked him what he did for a living. When he responded by telling her that he worked for the Medical Examiner, essentially the coroner, examining dead bodies and performing autopsies, she looked at him with a puzzled expression… We all have aspects of our lives that are unusual, whether it’s our family, our habits, or our jobs. But when we do these things every day, they become so normal to us that we don’t even question them anymore. In this special episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard go into depth on the touchstone of forensic death investigation: autopsies. They discuss what an autopsy is, who can order one, the different kinds, and how Joe ended up in this unique profession. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 2:07 - What is an autopsy? 4:10 - Who determines when an autopsy is done? Why would you not do one? 7:40 - Can an autopsy be done even if the family doesn’t want it? 9:58 - Gloria Satterfield’s cause of death 12:45 - Are there different kinds of autopsies? 17:55 - Joe’s experience in the autopsy room 18:56 - What is a full autopsy and how long does it take? 26:50 - Can certain autopsies be prioritized? 30:22 - Is an autopsy considered surgery? 34:05 - How did Joseph Scott end up working in a morgue? 38:50 - Seeing bodies in all different kinds of states 41:40 - How does Joe’s family deal with his line of work? 43:45 - Joe’s take on his career 45:21 - Wrap upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In April of 2019, police are investigating the death of a man named Phillip Pointer, who’s believed to have died of natural causes. When searching his property to confirm this, they stumble across a bucket, inside which they find a severed human foot. Little did they know that this foot would contain answers to a case police had been investigating for three years. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the difficulties of tracking body parts found in different locations, identifying a body, phenotyping, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:25 - Background and overview of the case 2:48 - What the police found at the scene 5:00 - What do investigators do to determine if there are any more remains on the property? 8:50 - Figuring out who the foot belongs to 10:50 - Is there a database that tracks body parts and when they are found? 12:55 - Connecting the dots 17:00 - What was the purpose behind the crime? 18:25 - Cause of death and how it was determined 22:45 - Identifying the body parts 26:50 - Identifying tattoos 29:20 - Different types of identification 32:38 - Phenotyping 35:50 - Identifying the victimSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On March 7, 2019 a man is driving down the road with his children in Las Vegas Valley when they notice a car with a rock thrown through its window. They call the police, and upon further inspection, a body is found in the trunk of the car with blood everywhere. The man is identified to be Dr. Thomas Burchard, a beloved child psychiatrist from Salinas, California. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the blood patterns, the evidence found inside the car, how many pieces of evidence are gathered from a crime scene, where Dr. Burchard was in his final days, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 2:25 - Background and overview of the case 5:12 - Blood patterns 7:15 - Determining the cause of death from blood patterns 12:10 - Gloves found inside the car 16:15 - Arson investigation 18:30 - How many pieces of evidence can be generated from a crime scene? 21:40 - The state the body is found in 25:40 - Tampering with the crime scene 27:30 - How did investigators figure out the victim had been beaten? 33:28 - Discovering where Dr. Burchard was during his final 3 days of life 37:00 - Investigators start to piece together the evidence 39:12 - Transfers of blood, swears, and wipes 42:38 - Wrap up See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Work a cold case alongside investigator Sheryl “Mac” McCollum, Director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. Every week, Sheryl dives into her cold case files alongside accomplished guests to look for clues into unsolved murders, missing people, and more. This ain’t just a podcast but a war room. Sheryl opens her cold case files, her heart and her little black book! You will quickly realize Zone 7 is not a place but a lifestyle! iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-zone-7-with-sheryl-mccollu-106023288/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/zone-7-with-sheryl-mccollum/id1660041219 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/39AxkVOTQ9HjcNqykeJHX4 Stitcher/Simplecast: https://www.stitcher.com/show/1048440 Pandora: https://www.pandora.com/podcast/zone-7-with-sheryl-mccollum/PC:1001048440 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/60846f0d-334a-4a97-8105-78c07d29aecd/zone-7-with-sheryl-mccollumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four University of Idaho students are brutally murdered in their home in Moscow, Idaho on November 13th, 2022. Police suspect that the murders occurred between 3am-4 and their bodies were discovered by a friend that same morning around noon. Investigators believe that the murder weapon was a knife of some sort. More leads have been uncovered by police and investigators in the past weeks and the hunt is still on for a primary suspect. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard continue discussing the details of this unfolding case, the DNA evidence that has been collected, details on a vehicle of interest, the odd state of lockdown at the scene of the crime, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 0:55 - Reopening the details of this case 1:55 - Description of the vehicle of interest that police are looking for. 7:22 - How do you properly process a vehicle that may be connected to a crime? 10:55 - The volume of evidence collected so far will take some time to go through properly. 12:49 - Types of biological evidence, Blood and DNA, collected on site 16:39 - Other possible biological evidence at the scene 19:43 - How many tests will be run on these individual pieces of evidence? 23:13 - Will running tests on evidence destroy the sample you have collected? 26:04 - Confusion on the details of the weapon involved in the stabbings 29:12 - Joe’s experience with grieving families 31:20 - Items returned to families immediately lose their evidentiary value in most cases 34:56 - Covering your bases as a Medical Legal Death investigator when thinking about the courtroom deposition of your findings. 36:38 - The importance of contextual location 39:56 - Joe Scott’s position on the importance of doing things in the proper order 41:23 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Christopher Osborn is found and pronounced dead in his home in Dublin, Ohio on July 18th, 2018, just after 7:30 a.m. He had been shot in the head three times in his sleep. His wife, Holli Osborn, drunkenly calls her father to tell him that her husband is dead. Her father calls the police and shortly thereafter they arrive at the house. After finding two guns next to the bed and seeing the state of Ms. Osborn, they take her into custody and eventually charge her with the murder of her husband. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the state Dr. Osborn was murdered in, gunshot residue, how to assess a crime scene after its been altered, how the location of where Holli’s DNA was found eventually proved she was the perpetrator, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:25 - Background and overview of the case 2:43 - Evidence from the bed 6:23 - In a case like this, what evidence do you start with first? 9:28 - Who arrived at the scene first? 12:20 - Assessing the crime scene after it's been damaged 15:40 - How to tell the difference between something that was part of the crime vs. caused by first responders when they arrived at the scene 19:40 - Does the amount of blood depend on how many times you were shot or where you were shot? 29:20 - Does Dr. Osborn’s physical state (sleeping) factor into his body’s reaction when he was shot? 34:40 - Gunshot residue 40:43 - Are all gun powders the same? 42:30 - Distribution of gunpowder 47:00 - “10 particles” 49:35 - Holli’s DNA being found on the gun and how it was proven that she was the perpetrator 50:50 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Katie Baunach is last seen alive on September 29th, 2022, when she tells a friend she is going to her ex-husband's home to pick up some of her belongings. She obtained a restraining order from him the previous month after allegations he had abused one of their children. When police went to investigate the house they detected “signs of a physical struggle” and upon looking further found something much more sinister. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss how luminol is used to detect blood, the difficulties of burning a body, non-specific homicidal trauma, “roid rage”, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:25 - Background and overview of the case 2:58 - Moving of the car 5:40 - Using luminol to detect blood 12:13 - Who invented spraying blood with luminol to see it under a black light? 14:30 - The difficulties of burning a body 20:34 - Why did the barrel smell of decay? (check) 22:18 - Moving the body 24:10 - How do you determine the cause of death for a body that had been moved multiple times? 26:50 - Non-specific homicidal trauma 30:02 - Dealing with stress 30:33 - Police find suspicious substances 34:03 - What is “roid rage” and what causes it? 40:45 - Wrap upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four University of Idaho students are brutally murdered in their home in Moscow, Idaho on November 13th, 2022. Police suspect that the murder took place between 3am-4 and their bodies are discovered by a friend that same morning around noon. Investigators believe that the murder weapon was a knife of some sort. This case is still unfolding. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the gruesome nature of this case, the murder weapon, making sense of the chaos of the crime scene, what police are looking for in the surveillance footage, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:25 - Background and overview of case 2:26 - The police not knowing what they were walking into 6:20 - Side door being the point of entry 8:30 - Signs of forced entry, the window, and how it could have been pried open 10:07 - Light sources 12:30 - Two roommates who survived, who was stabbed first, the murder weapon 18:26 - The style of weapon suggests that this was a targeted attack 21:34 - How do we tell who was stabbed first and what are we going to find on the other victims? 26:38 - Making sense of the chaos 28:05 - Co-mingling of blood, actions of the perpetrator, finding the knife 31:54 - Other injuries to expect in this case 35:38 - What exactly are the police looking for in the video surveillance footage? 40:38 - OutroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Reagan Simmons Hancock, 21, is found dead in her New Boston home by her mother on the morning of October 9th, 2020. She was seven and a half months pregnant, had been stabbed over 100 times, strangled, and had her unborn child removed from her womb. The perpetrator is Taylor Parker, a friend of Hancock’s, who had been faking a pregnancy for over 10 months. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the blood patterns at the crime scene, the injuries sustained by Hancock, the logistics of performing an at-home C-section, and how Parker may have gone about planning the attack. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:18 - Background and overview of case 3:14 - Blood patterns 4:42 - Two questions: 1. How much blood is in the human body? 2. With blood everywhere, how do you figure out where the murder actually occurred? 7:50 - Stab wounds/strangulation 10:40 - How Reagan’s pregnancy factored into her murder/death 13:32 - Scalpels, surgical tools, C-sections 17:25 - Langer lines 19:50 - How did the assailant perform the C-section without harming the baby? 23:11 - Finding the perpetrator: Taylor Parker 24:10 - The placenta and Parker faking the baby’s birth 27:35 - Major indicators that a woman has given birth 30:28 - What ultimately led to the death of the child? 32:30 - Wrap up and final thoughtsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On April 16th, 2022 a mushroom hunter calls 911 to tell them he’s found an abandoned suitcase in the middle of the woods. Inside the suitcase is the body of a young boy. The boy is later identified as 5-year-old Cairo Ammar Jordan from Atlanta, Georgia. He was never reported missing. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the state of Cairo’s body when it was found, his cause of death, how police process a crime scene like this, what it’s like to discover a body, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:57 - Background and overview of the case 3:10 - How did they get Cairo into the suitcase? 7:25 - The state of Cairo’s body when found 10:45 - Discovering bodies 14:55 - How do police begin processing a scene like this? 18:15 - Joe describes the tests done on evidence found 21:30 - The inside of the suitcase 27:30 - Pulling fingerprints and finding the crime scene as the perpetrator left it 31:35 - Cairo’s cause of death 35:45 - How does an electrolyte imbalance kill you? 38:10 - Viral gastroenteritis 43:10 - Wrap up See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four men in Okmulgee, Oklahoma leave a friend's house on bikes on the evening of October 9th, 2022. Investigators believe that these men intended to commit a crime, or series of crimes. They are soon reported missing. On October 14th, their bodies are found in Deep For River having been shot and dismembered. After looking into the case officials believe that this act was premeditated. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the overt violence of the murder, how to track a bicycle, how you distinguish between blood types, how investigators retrieve body parts, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:12 - Background and overview of the case 3:20 - How do you track a bicycle? 9:45 - How do you calculate how far to extend your search? 12:10 - Police using tracking information to find the victims 15:30 - Bodies dumped in the river 16:15 - How is it physically possible to kill four men in a short period of time? 20:35 - What exactly is “a violent act”? 24:15 - The steps taken in an autopsy to distinguish between blood types 29:00 - What do two different blood types look like on a slide? 30:58 - Visual deception 32:10 - Would the victim's skeleton be visible by this point? 36:10 - How does the gruesome state of the victim’s bodies interfere with being able to figure out what happened to them? 39:40 - How do you retrieve body parts and keep them in the state they’re found? 46:05 - Wrap upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sarah Boone calls authorities to report that her boyfriend, Jorge Torres Jr. is dead in their home in Winter Park, Florida. The couple had been drinking the night before and thought it would be “funny” if Mr. Torres crawled inside a suitcase and Ms.Boone zipped him inside. She then goes upstairs and passes out in her bed. When she woke up the next morning she finds Torres still in the suitcase and unresponsive. After police uncovered video from Boone’s phone with Torres yelling Boones name and attempting to escape, they charge her with second-degree murder. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss what happens to your body when it’s deprived of oxygen, positional vs. compression asphyxiation, how much of a role the couple’s alcohol consumption played into the case, injuries sustained by Mr. Torres, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:40 - Background and overview of case 3:25 - Cause of death 5:40 - Positional asphyxiation 8:00 - What volume of oxygen does your brain require? 10:30 - What does lack of oxygen do to your body? 15:45 - How is it exactly that lack of oxygen makes you die? 18:05 - Fear of running out of oxygen 20:25 - Other items found in the suitcase 23:25 - Compression asphyxia vs. Positional asphyxia 26:35 - How compressed does your chest have to be for asphyxiation to occur? 28:45 - How much of a role did alcohol play in this case? 30:55 - Discovering a body in a suitcase 31:35 - Injuries Mr. Torres sustained 35:40 - Could Torres have gotten out of the suitcase? 37:55 - History of domestic violence 39:14 - Wrap upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On Jan. 18, 2021, 46-year-old Francis Kelly’s body was discovered. Police find Kelly on his couch, in his home, and a bag of cocaine underneath him. The unexpected autopsy says he died of strangulation. All while during a heated custody battle between Kelly and Littlefield. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss how Francis Kelly’s death was ultimately a staged overdose, the significant differences between fentanyl and cocaine, how the body reacts to the different drugs, why strangulation was not obvious to investigators, and much more! Show Notes: 0:00 - Introduction to Body Bags with forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and producer Jackie Howard 0:36 - Brief overview of the homicide case involving victim Francis Kelly 1:14 - Introduction of CrimeOnline’s Jackie Howard 2:09 - When Francis Kelly's body was discovered, police found him on his couch in his home and a bag of cocaine underneath him 2:57 - The difference between fentanyl and cocaine 4:32 - Left ventricular hypertrophy 8:11 - Fentanyl was originally developed as a partner for surgical use 10:00 - How fentanyl works within the body vs. cocaine 11:08 - Narcan and its uses 16:03 - Questions: How did he get the fentanyl in his body? Is that a normal way of taking fentanyl? Is that way going to have a different reaction in the body? Would he have tasted it? Does ingesting it offer a different kind of effect? 19:26 - What is skin popping? 24:52 - “There is nothing as an investigator that will make you stop cold in your tracks than an unexpected result at autopsy. It's something that makes you question your abilities. It's something that makes you question the care that you took with the case because this is key: Once the scene has been left, the body has been removed from the scene, and can never reset.” 25:34 - Autopsy reports that Kelly was in fact strangled and did not OD as suspected 26:32 - Question: Kelly was strangled with a tie. Why was that not originally obvious? Specifically, because ligature marks typically leave a mark 31:51 - We later find out that Kelly's death was a result of a custody dispute between Littlefield and Kelly. Littlefield claimed Kelly was abusive 32:22 - Question: The other thing that we find out, which I find very interesting and kind of explains some things about the cocaine, knowing that he died from fentanyl and that it was cocaine that was found. We're looking at a good case of staging here, aren't we, Joe? 38:57 - The verdict is in 39:28 - Heidi Littlefield was sentenced to 115 years in a state prison, which included 60 years for murder. 20 years for attempted poisonings, and 35 years for conspiracy to commit murder resulting in a deathSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On January 7th, 1972, Nancy Anderson, 19, is found dead in her Waikiki apartment with over 60 stab wounds. The case goes cold for fifty years until new DNA technology and detective work leads to the arrest of a suspect: Tudor Chirila Jr. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the lack of evidence the crime scene, why Nancy’s roommate thought this might have been a suicide, distinguishing between stab wounds, how phenotyping lead to the breakthrough in this case, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 2:37 - Background and overview of case 4:15 - How do you investigate a case once it's gone cold? 7:20 - Stab wounds 11:30 - No evidence of foul play at the crime scene 15:45 - The roommate and thinking Nancy had comitted suicide 18:40 - Water running in the bathroom 21:00 - How do you distinguish between wounds? 24:40 - The salesman as suspects 26:35 - Bathrooms as a popular crime scene 30:05 - Blood testing process 35:35 - How do you preserve evidence? 41:17 - What is Phenotyping and how did it help the investigation? 47:55 - Genealogy and a son 49:20 - The suspect is found 50:43 - Wrap up See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Eliza Fletcher, a Memphis teacher and mother, is reported missing the morning of September 2, 2022 after she doesn't return home from her morning jog. A search is launched shortly thereafter and comes to an end on September 5th when her body is found by police. Suspect, Cleotha Abston has been arrested and charged for her murder. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss what the autopsy report shows, what her cause of death was determined to be, what drugs were found in her system, and more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 0:50 - Background and overview of case 1:42 - The autopsy report: how you read it and what you learn from it 16:17 - Eliza’s cause of death 22:16 - What the gunshot wound tells us 26:23 - Internal and external beveling 28:03 - Le Fort fracture 32:25 - Submission 34:10 - Fentanyl 40:13 - Was Eliza Fletcher raped? 43:36 - Wrap up See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s the morning of March 31st, 2020 a jogger finds Dr. Beth Potter and her husband Robin Carre shot in the head execution-style in University of Wisconsin Arboretum. Carre is pronounced dead on the scene by police while his wife, who was still alive, was rushed to the hospital where she also dies. Initially the police believed this to be a random homicide, but after reviewing video surveillance and GPS data, they redirect their sights on a potential suspect: Khari Sanford - the boyfriend of the victim’s adopted daughter Mimi. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the gruesome nature of this case, how the cooler temperature affected the crime scene (specifically, the blood), how conscious Dr. Potter was for the hours that she was alive after the attack and the motive of the suspect. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:32 - Background and overview of the case 5:21 - Did Robin Carre die from his gunshot wound/was it exacerbated from the cold temperature? 7:23 - Was Dr. Potter really still breathing when they found her? 9:34 - The significance of the area where you’re shot 12:01 - How do we know the victims were killed on the pathway where they were found? 16:15 - Would the cooler temperatures affect the state of the blood found at the crime scene? 18:26 - Shell casings 21:10 - Was Dr. Potter in and out of consciousness the whole night before she was found? 25:14 - Finding the suspect, Khari Sanford (the boyfriend of the victim’s daughter) 29:41 - Hearsay and the weight is has in a court of law 33:20 - Sanford and Mimi (the victim’s daughter) reportedly spoke of the parents having “bands of money” and that they were “rich” 36:35 - Wrap up and final detailsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Pamela Hargan and her daughter Helen were found dead in their home in McLean, Virginia, the victims of an apparent murder-suicide, in July 2017. Once police investigated further, they realized that the crime scene had been staged and this was a homicide that they were looking at. Eventually, police narrowed it down to one prime suspect - Pamela’s oldest daughter Megan. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss how the police realized the crime scene was staged, the significance of where the gun was found, blood spatter patterns, how they came to suspect Pamela’s oldest daughter Megan, and much more. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:32 - Background and overview of the case 3:35 - How did the police know that the crime scene had been staged? 7:05 - The significance of the location where the gun was found 10:08 - The forces of gravity and homicide v. suicide investigations 15:45 - Gunshot residue 19:30 - Blood spatter pattern 25:20 - After recreating the crime scene, what did they discover about Pamela’s death? 29:55 - What happens when someone is shot in the head? 34:30 - Pamela’s oldest daughter, Megan, is charged with the murder 38:35 - Megan’s phone call to her boyfriend 40:00 - After the police realized the crime scene was staged, how did they start investigating the case as a homicide? 44:25 - Wrapping up and final details of the caseSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Amie Harwick, a sex therapist and former fiancé of actor Drew Carey, is found unresponsive under a balcony in her Hollywood Hills home on the morning of February 15th, 2020. She is rushed to the hospital, but unfortunately, passes away. The evidence at the crime scene and on Harwick’s body indicated signs of a struggle and her having been thrown from the balcony. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss blunt force trauma, the difference between falling/being thrown from a great height, how to tell in what order injuries occur, and why a nicotine syringe became a major factor in this case. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 1:25 - Background and overview of the case 3:45 - Where do you start with a case like this? 5:10 - Amie Harwick being thrown from her balcony 7:30 - How do we know she was thrown off the balcony? 15:45 - Do the injuries differ depending on whether you are thrown from a great height or fall from one? 19:00 - Blunt force trauma 20:10 - How does the M.E. go about examining all the injuries? 25:50 - Is it possible that Amie was beaten and that caused the injuries to her liver, not the fall? 29:40 - How can you tell what order the injuries happened in? 32:00 - If Amie fell, and was not thrown, would her death still be considered blunt force trauma? 34:00 - Suspects in Amie’s case 34:55 - How investigators suspect the murder played out 36:40 - Finding a nicotine filled syringe and what that signifies 42:10 - Harwick’s ex-boyfriend, Gareth Pursehouse, becomes the prime suspect 44:45 - Pursehouse has been charged with murder, first degree residential burglary, and special circumstance allegation of lying in wait.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Eliza Fletcher, a 34-year old mother of Memphis, Tennessee went missing around 4am, September 2nd, 2022 while out for a morning run. CCTV footage shows her being forced into an SUV. An arrest has been made in connection to her disappearance. Eliza Fletcher's remains have now been found and positively identified.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

First responders arrive at a “battle scene” in 77-year-old Barbara Steele's West Virginia home. Her body is beaten, eviscerated, and positioned on a makeshift altar by 28-year-old Joshua Drennen, who after leaving her residence, continues his string of assaults on unsuspecting civilians, until immobilized by a Charleston police officer. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the antique item used in the physical attacks and injuries sustained by Barbara Steele and two other individuals in the community. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 2:46 - Description of an antique iron owned and utilized by 77-year-old Barbara Steele 6:47 - Police are alerted to a criminal act committed by Joshua Drennen inside Barbara Steele’s home 8:03 - Joe describes the crime scene, the assault on Barbara Steele’s vehicle, and her participation within the community. 10:45 - Jackie and Joe discuss the continued acts of violence by Joshua Drennen against a woman inside her parked vehicle 9:23 - An explanation of cubing injuries to a body from an explosion of safety glass and how investigators use that information to determine a body’s position within a vehicle 13:31 - Joshua Drennen’s continued acts of violence throughout the community 17:29 - Charleston Police Patrolman Terrence Casto stops the threat by Joshua Drennen 18:24 - Joe describes the violent crime scene and the horrendous blunt force trauma Barbara Steele’s body experienced 26:21 - Beyond the trauma to her face and head, the police noticed Barbara's body had been eviscerated, as well as sexually assaulted post-mortem 31:33 - Joe and Jackie discuss the way Barbara Steele’s body was positioned and items located near her after the attack 35:49 - Why Barbara Steele and the woman in the parking lot? 37:24 - Overview of Joshua Drennen’s trial and convictionSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Christian Obumseli, boyfriend of OnlyFans model Courtney Clenney is found by police in their Miami apartment fatally stabbed. The pair have been dating for approximately two years and have a reportedly “tumultuous” relationship. Courtney Clenney claims to have been acting out of self defense, but the physical evidence may seem to suggest something else. Courtney Clenney has since been charged with second degree murder. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the details of the stabbing, the physical evidence found at the crime scene, the injuries sustained by Christian Obumseli that led to his death, and how witness testimony will play into this ongoing case. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 2:09 - Courtney Clenney’s OnlyFans account and relationship with Christian Obumseli 3:44 - Video and pictures of Courtney Clenney covered in blood 5:00 - Courtney Clenney and Christian Obumseli’s lavish lifestyle 7:32 - The 911 call and the physical evidence of the crime scene 12:02 - What are the police seeing at the crime scene? 18:58 - What it means for blood to “leech out” 22:03 - How the blood appeared on Courtney Clenney 25:36 - The timeline of the crime 29:05 - Injuries sustained by Christian Obumseli 35:34 - Knowing what we know now, is Courtney Clenney claim that she threw the knife while acting in self defense possible? 40:51 - If what Courtney Clenney claims happened is true, would the remaining blood patterns be different? 44:20 - How will the video evidence and witness statements of assault play into the case? 48:28 - How do you approach a “he said, she said” court case? 51:14 - Final thoughts and wrapping up the show See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Video surveillance captures the final images of 80-year-old Edna Suttles alive in a hotel parking lot in one of the most beautiful places in the United States, a tiny South Carolina town called Travelers Rest. Nearly a month after her disappearance, Edna's body is found buried across state lines in a wooded area of North Carolina. Investigators work tirelessly to piece together the events that lead to her death, and in the process, realize they’re dealing with a serial killer. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the details of Edna Suttles’ death and the unexpected discovery during the investigation. They talk about the similarities between the four confirmed victims, the behavior of serial killers, and the methods Daniel Printz used to murder his victims. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 3:16 - Joseph Scott and Jackie discuss the details of Edna Suttles’ disappearance 4:20 - Discussion about Edna Suttles as South Carolina’s first female bail bondsman, and the heightened awareness that someone develops while working in that career 5:55 - Who reported Edna as a missing person? 7:12 - The discovery of Edna’s body and why the FBI was involved in this case 9:23 - The ominous findings by the medical examiner 11:52 - Surveillance video confirms Edna Suttles and Daniel Printz were in the same place and had some type of relationship 14:01 - The lethal cocktail that was given to Edna and how a body reacts when administered in those doses 15:22 - The unusual location on Daniel Printz’s property where he stored Edna’s belongings 18:34 - Using cadaver dogs to facilitate the discovery and recovery of remains 22:40 - The massive discovery by police at Daniel Printz’s home while investigating Edna’s death 25:56 - Connecting Daniel Printz to multiple murders through evidence found and commentary he made 28:42 - Analysis of serial killers’ behaviors and the unusual deviation Daniel Printz took in the murder of Nancy Rego 34:55 - Investigators learn of a fourth murder victim, Leigh Goodman 36:17 - Joe talks about Daniel Printz as a predator and the relationship between him and Leigh Goodman 39:04 - What sets these murders apart? 40:46 - Daniel Printz’s case is tried in the federal district court 42:27 - Where else has Daniel Printz been and who else has he impacted?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On February 14, 2018, a 19-year-old named Nikolas Cruz opens fire on students and teachers at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, murdering 17 people and injuring 17 more. It is still the deadliest high school shooting in United States history, surpassing even the Columbine shooting, in 1999, which ended with 15 people dead. Nikolas Cruz arrives at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School via an Uber, constructs his firearm, and then begins his assault on his former classmates. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the details of the shooting, the weapon used in the attack, how the crime scene remains untouched after all these years, the reasons behind preserving the high school in this way, and the significance of the date of the shooting. Show Notes: 0:00 - Intro 0:45 - Joseph Scott and Jackie discuss the details of the shooting itself 7:45 - Did Cruz pull the fire alarm or could it have been triggered by smoke from the gun? 9:23 - Explanation of the layout of the building, crime scene, and how investigators would go about analyzing it 12:23 - The evolution of crime scene investigations 14:56 - The duration of the shooting and how hurricane proof glass ended up saving lives 19:01 - Nikolas Cruz’s background and how he blended in with students to escape the scene 20:29 - Cruz’s arrest and recovery of the weapon 21:30 - Joe talks about the weapon used in the attack 22:51 - The fear that teachers and students experienced seeing and hearing the gunshots 24:44 - Joe explains the Big Black Gun Theory 27:18 - Joe and Jackie discuss the crime scene remaining untouched since the shooting 28:50 - As evidence is collected, it’s sealed - how do you seal an entire building? 31:05 - Why would you want to leave a crime scene untouched for this long? 33:14 - Joe talks about the importance of chain of custody in forensics 35:34 - The reasons for preserving the high school in its condition 39:22 - Joe talks about the significance of this occurring on Valentine’s Day See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For more than ten years, the family of Ellen Greenberg has been looking for answers and justice. The 27-year-old first grade teacher and bride-to-be was found stabbed behind the locked door of her apartment. In fact, she was stabbed 20 times, including wounds to her back and head. The original finding by the medical examiner determined homicide. So, why does the final ruling say Ellen Greenberg committed suicide? Listen to former death scene investigator Joseph Scott Morgan's analysis, then join him as he and Nancy Grace recreate the crime scene and hear from Ellen Greenberg's parents in Teacher Death Mystery: A Nancy Grace Investigation, streaming now on Fox Nation. Was it suicide, or did something more sinister happen to Ellen Greenberg? Follow the push for justice with Teacher Death Mystery: A Nancy Grace Investigation, and Behind the Locked Door with Joseph Scott Morgan. STREAMING NOW: Teacher Death Mystery: A Nancy Grace Investigation Follow this case on Facebook at "Justice for Ellen." Subscribe to Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan : Apple Podcasts Spotify iHeartSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Avid big game hunter, Bianca Rudolph, is found unresponsive in a cabin in Zambia with a gunshot wound to her chest. Her husband of 34 years, Dr. Larry Rudolph, the only other person in the cabin at the time, claims to have been showering when he heard the gunshot. He claims accidental discharge, but investigators disagree. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the likelihood of Bianca Rudolph accidentally shooting herself, the complications of working a crime scene in the wilderness of Africa, the odd behaviors displayed by her husband at the time of her death, and the tip that lead authorities to an in-depth investigation, and eventual guilty verdict of her husband, Dr. Larry Rudolph. Show Notes: 0:15 - Introducing the death of Dr. Larry Rudolph’s wife of 34 years, Bianca Rudolph 2:14 - While packing up following a two-week hunting trip in Zambia, Dr. Rudolph claims his wife accidentally shot herself 6:56 - Is it physically possible to shoot yourself while packing away a shotgun? 8:48 - Explanation of the type of gun that killed Bianca, and ruling out possible suicide 12:05 - Joe explains the injury sustained to Bianca’s body from multiple 30-caliber-sized projectiles 16:29 - Looking for evidence of powder distribution on Bianca’s body and clothing 19:32 - Smooth bore weapons vs rifled weapons 21:37 - Working a crime scene in the wilderness of one of the world’s largest game preserves and how bodies are back to the US from Africa 25:24 - Dr. Rudolph’s push to have Bianca’s body cremated within three days of her death and the steps taken by the consular chief in Zambia to document her injuries 27:49 - The tip that leads to an in-depth FBI investigation 29:57 - Events that lead authorities to conclude Bianca’s death was no accident 34:09 - Odd behavior displayed by Dr. Larry Rudolph in the moments after he heard the gunshot 38:21 - Joseph Scott describes what happens when a round passes through an intermediate target and the amount of blood that he would be expected to be present in that situation. 40:39 - When the body is assaulted by such an event, does it fall in a specific manner? 42:47 - Resolution in the case against Dr. Larry RudolphSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Talented and beloved musician, Scott Sessions, is found brutally murdered in an ambush attack, his throat slashed to near decapitation. Shortly afterward, his lover, who lured him to the moment of his death, Heather Frank, is also found dead with gunshot wounds to her chest. Investigators find Heather Frank wrapped in the same burnt plastic as they found Scott Sessions. The suspect? Heather Frank’s boyfriend, Kevin Eastman. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the horrific murders of Scott Sessions and Heather Frank. They delve into the mechanics of murder by an edged weapon to the throat, the pathology of an enraged killer, rendering a body by fire, and the connective evidence found at both crime scenes. Show Notes: 1:00 - Introducing the deaths of Scott Sessions and Heather Frank 3:39 - The connection between Scott Sessions, Heather Frank, and Kevin Eastman 4:55 - The visibility of a toxic, abusive relationship on a body 6:54 - Anatomy of bruises and how professionals grade them in abuse cases 13:08 - What happened to Scott Sessions 14:54 - The mechanics of slitting a throat with an edged weapon 17:05 - Volume of blood within the body, types and locations of injuries that cause blood loss, and the forensic importance of a victim’s blood that has pooled outside of the body 22:14 - The horrific injuries Scott Sessions sustained 27:30 - Pathology of a killer who is full of anger and rage 29:18 - The death of Heather Frank 31:59- Why did Heather have to die? 34:36 - The failed attempt to render down Scott’s body by fire and the common evidence found on both victims 39:07 - Looking for connectivity/tieback in forensics: evidence found at both crime scenes 41:57 - The discovery of Scott Sessions and Heather Frank’s bodies 43:57 - The conviction of Kevin Eastman See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow’s bodies are discovered on June 9, 2020, on the property of Chad Daybell in Rexburg, Idaho. After months of missing person investigations, complicated circumstances surrounding their disappearance, and a string of suspicious deaths, police have charged Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell in the horrific murders of Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow. In this episode of Body Bags, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Jackie Howard discuss the complex case against Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell in the murders of Tylee Ryan and J.J Vallow. They also discuss the striking differences between the ways in which Tylee and J.J 's bodies were treated post-mortem, complications of processing the crime scene, and the request to allow for forensic DNA testing on the evidence collected by the state of Idaho. Show Notes: 1:00 - Introducing the deaths of Tylee Ryan and Joshua Jaxon “J.J.” Vallow 1:54 - Sections 1: A brief history of the confusing events that led to finding the remains of Tylee and J.J. buried on the property of Chad Daybell 5:29 - The mysterious death of Tammy Daybell 8:03 - Cause of death: natural causes, a seemingly inaccurate determination for a physically active woman who was in good health 10:32 - Searching for physical evidence of the cause of death in an exhumed embalmed body 12:00 - How authorities located the remains of Tylee and J.J. 15:41 - The striking differences between the treatment of Tylee and J.J.'s bodies 18:32 - Section 2: Processing the crime scene 20:57 - Examining the evidence on the tape and plastic bag encasing J.J. Vallow 22:17 - The problem with cutting open a bag containing remains at the crime scene 24:07- Recovery of Tylee’s remains 28:24 - Individualization of evidence: examining every bone fragment of a dismembered body 30:16 - Section three: Forensic DNA testing on the evidence recovered at Daybell’s property by the state’s crime scene unit 33:40 - Specific evidence found at the crime scene 39:30 - Consumptive testing: setting a dangerous precedent by allowing third-party observers See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.