Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

It’s impossible to make an argument for a more important book in the history of the world than the Bible. I’ve grown up reading it. I’ve spent my life studying it. The BIBLE yes that’s the book for me. But the Bible is also a complicated book, full of various kinds of writing, from various authors, across many years. I’ve had my fair share of moment over the years in Leviticus, Numbers, and Song of Solomon where I’ve wondered…what is going on? We all know we’re supposed to read it. But how are we to make sense of it? How are we supposed to read it? Today I’m talking with Zach Windahl, author of the Book The Bible, Simplified. This is a conversation about the Bible – what the arc of Scripture communicates, how to read it, and strategies for building habits around prayer and bible reading.  Maybe you’re a pastor or a worship leader who opens the Bible to get a word for you congregation or ministry team, but struggle to read it or understand it consistently. This conversation is for you. Topics Covered: Zach’s journey of coming to Christ Following Jesus and suffering Why we need to understand the historical context of the Bible How to read the Bible accurately Out of context Bible verses The clumsiness of prayer How to create a habit of prayer and Bible reading Coffee routines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Get Brick The Bible, Simplified by Zach Windahl Deep Work by Cal Newport The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg Atomic Habits by James Clear Glitch Coffee Roasters DAK Coffee Roasters Black & White Coffee Roasters Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #386: The Bible: How To Read It, Understand It, And Build A Daily Habit Around It With Zach Windahl appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: How Chris got started in Worship ministry How the explosion of a worship industry has malformed us for local church ministry Why we need Worship Pastors in the church What unique challenges Worship Leaders are facing today The downsides to the seeker sensitive movement in the American Church How worship leaders and lead pastors can develop a healthy partnership Leadership skills every worship pastor needs to develop in a multisite context Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Chris Kuti Instagram Multitracks Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #385: Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Something I am so grateful for is the leadership experience I received growing up in the church. From a young age, I got involved in worship teams. I led small groups. I developed skills. I was put on stages I had no business being on. Church wasn’t just a weekly service we attended. It was a leadership incubator. L. Michelle Smith has written a new book called Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From the Black Church. In it she discusses how the Black Church has historically developed high level business leaders. The book borrows from culture, neuroscience, and positive psychology to describe the power of the Black Church and why it has produced so many high level leaders . Whether you’ve grown up in the Black Church or have never even visited, we all have something to learn here. Because if the church stops developing leaders in favor of merely hiring out a professional, performative workforce, we could be in some trouble. This is David Santistevan. You can reach me anytime at [email protected] As always, thank you for listening. Topics Covered: Why the history of Call and Response in the Black Church matters to us today Leadership development in the local church Leadership lessons learned in the Black Church What it’s like being a successful Black women in corporate America Why The Black Church is seen as inferior in both white and black spaces Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From The Black Church by L. Michelle Smith The Black Church: This Is Our Story This Is Our Song by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #384: Leadership Lessons For All From The History Of The Black Church with L. Michelle Smith appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

There’s an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough? On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we’ll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there’s also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don’t think that can be debated. So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective? What does the Bible teach us about singing, songwriting, and corporate worship? Trip Lee is a hip hop artist, a preacher, a rapper, an author…and he’s released a worship album. I appreciate Trip and his commitment to God’s Word. We talk about the power of worship music, why we need more cultural expressions of it, and how worship music should be viewed as a tool of discipleship. We also talk about culture and Christianity, racial tension, and how we should think about the division in the church right now. Trip is awesome and this conversation was a joy. This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime at [email protected]. As always thank you for listening. Topics Covered: Trip’s story of coming to faith in Christ The influence of church music on Tripp’s music Musical and theological influences Why Tripp decided to make a worship album The intersection of culture and church Why it can be challenging to partner together across racial and cultural lines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center For Your Glory EP by Trip Lee & Brag Worship Brag Worship Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #383: Making Worship Music That Doesn’t Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

If you’re a worship leader, you plan services. It comes with the territory. It’s part of the job. Most of the time, that comes down to picking songs. But what are we missing in our churches when service planning, programming, and worship leading is reduced to merely picking songs? W. David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology & Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary as well as the director of various initiatives in worship, theology and the arts. He teaches courses in systematic theology, art and worship, art and theology, art and beauty, spiritual formation through the psalms, and theology and science fiction. He is the author of the books Glimpses of The New Creation, Prayers for the Pilgrimage, A Body of Praise, Open & Unafraid, as well as the upcoming book To Set the World Aflame: How Artists Bear Witness to the Fullness of God’s Creation. David is a deep well of wisdom when it comes to worship and the arts. What I love about this conversation is he helps us see more expansive view of what worship is and can be in the church.  We discuss why artists are necessary and how they help us see more of God. The value of silence in our gatherings. The kinds of songs we need to be singing today. Why the predominant worship model today isn’t wrong, but inadequate. You can reach me anytime at [email protected]. Thank you for listening. Topics Covered: The difference between formation and experience in worship Why our current model of worship experiences isn’t wrong, but inadequate The value of silence in our gatherings Why we need artists in the church Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Glimpses of the New Creation by W. David O. Taylor Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #382: Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with W. David O. Taylor appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

We are living in interesting times if you’re a Christian in America. Open social media for a second on any given day and you can see outrage on one side and celebration on the other for those who follow Jesus. How are we supposed to navigate times like these? What are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to think? What should followers of Jesus do in times like this? I don’t have all the answers, but I appreciate bold voices who help us make sense of the chaos. One of those voices is Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Brittany is an activist, an educator, a writer, and a leader who spends her time at the intersection of culture, justice, and policy. She doesn’t just live in the realm of lofty ideas, but is actively working to make life better for the most vulnerable in society. Brittany is also a Christian. In this conversation we talk about her faith journey. We share stories of my journey growing up in white evangelicalism and her first encounter with white evangelicalism. We talk about what it means to follow Jesus today. How our faith should influence our voting and our politics. No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, Brittany has something to teach us if we’re willing to listen.  This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime with questions, guest recommendations, complaints, or criticisms at [email protected] As always, thank you so much for listening. Topics Covered: Brittany’s faith tradition growing up The need for liberation theology and what it means for the local church The importance of unlearning and contextualizing theology Noticing how white supremacy undermines the prosperity of black people The defunding of HBCUs and what that means for black thriving in America What it means to be a red letter Christian Politics and faith The prophetic witness of the Black Church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Brittany on Instagram Brittany on Threads Brittany’s Website The Black Church in the African American Experience by C. Eric Lincoln & Lawrence H. Mamiya Jesus And John Wayne by Kristen Kobes Du Mez Podcast cover art photography: https://www.bepureblack.com/ Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #381: Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry. Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence? Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry. This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged. My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at [email protected]. Topics Covered: Calvin’s journey as a worship leader The reality of starting music later in life Why we shouldn’t be afraid of frequent new songs Why diversity is important How the Christian music industry needs to change Why God still has a plan for you The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Aware Worship Instagram.com/calvinnowell Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

It’s becoming almost a tradition that when I need to talk about something really difficult, I invite David Gate on the Podcast. David is a former worship leader, recording artist turned author who has a keen eye about what is happening in the world. And he’s not afraid to tell it like it is. David wrote an article recently called “The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music” – I know, pretty intense. But also not entirely hard to believe, if you’re paying attention. In this conversation we talk about it – how worship music can be co-opted to serve anti-Christian political agendas. How easy it is for our Christianity to become enmeshed with our politics to the point where we can’t tell where one begins and the other ends. We look historically at how Hitler co-opted the music of Wagner to serve his political aims. How worship music can be manipulative in healthy and unhealthy ways. We talk about choosing songs and what to do if you’re tired of mainstream, popular worship music. The conversation ends with some music recommendations and thoughts on David’s creative process. This is a difficult chat, but a great one. You’ll be uncomfortable frequently. You may disagree some. But I guarantee it will challenge your thinking and improve your ministry life if you allow it. This is David Santistevan. You can email me any time at [email protected]. As always, thanks for listening. Topics Covered: When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda Why it’s not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room The difference between empathy and worship Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it Pro football/College football and racism What to do if you can’t stomach singing popular worship music in church A true definition of Christian persecution Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center David Gate The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music by David Gate A Rebellion of Care: Poems & Essays by David Gate Nested in Tangles by Hannah Frances Baby by Dijon Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi – veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor. We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage. Practical ways to do simple worship without losing excellence. We talk about the beauty of gospel music and where it’s headed. How to empower young worship leaders and what the older generation can learn from them. We also hear the story of how Martha brilliantly forced her way onto my podcast. It’s kind of hilarious. Topics Covered: How Martha got started in music Why Martha decided to write and pursue gospel music Why worship is so important How to empower younger worship leaders How to simplify worship in a production-heavy age The future of Gospel music The story behind Martha’s new project, “Church is Revival” Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Church is Revival by Martha Munizzi Epic Life Church Martha Munizzi website Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #378: Why It’s OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Justice – when you hear that word what do you think of? The word carries some baggage in the church today and has become highly politicized. Too much justice talk and you can be dismissed as Marxist, woke, or a proponent of the “unbiblical” social justice gospel. But if you can remove yourself from cultural baggage, read the Bible with fresh eyes, and look at the life of Jesus, you see justice everywhere. Justice was central to the life and mission of Jesus. And it should be to his followers as well. One of the best books I’ve read on the topic is a new book by Joash Thomas called The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together to Pursue Liberation And Wholeness. Talking about justice shouldn’t cause us to draw tighter partisan political lines. It should cause us – as Joash says – to be politically agnostic, except on behalf of our marginalized neighbors.  This is an eye-opening conversation. He talk about how colonization has shaped the Western church to resist justice. Why we need more teaching on justice and not less. Why it’s important to diversity our theological influences. And some practical ways any local church can pursue justice. Joash is a kind soul with a deep understanding of justice and Christianity in the global south and what we can learn in the west…from followers of Jesus all over the world.  Topics Covered: How “wokeism” and “Marxism” have become deflective tactics to keep us from facing the truth Why the Evangelical Church needs more teaching on justice How colonization and colonialism has shaped us to resist justice Why it’s good for our formation to diversify our theological influences Why Christians should be politically agnostic Practical ways the church today can pursue justice Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together To Pursue Liberation And Wholeness by Joash Thomas Joash Thomas website Joash Thomas instagram Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #377: How The Western Church Has Been Shaped To Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About It) with Joash P. Thomas appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

One of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some systems we’ve held dear need to come down. Part of being a faithful follower of Jesus in the world is paying attention to what is of God and what is not. And that’s why I wanted to have a conversation with my friend Phillip Joubert. Phillip is an artist with Common Hymnal, one of my favorite Christian artist collectives out there right now. They are making music that is a refreshing counterpoint to popular Christian music today. It’s Jesus AND justice. It’s praise AND protest. It’s worship music that is rooted in the goodness of God but with a grip on the reality of our world. Phillip is a truth teller. A prophet, you might say. The voice of someone who spots trends and speaks with moral clarity and biblical conviction. Topics Covered: Why praise and protest are needed in our spiritual formation Why worship culture tends to be tone deaf Why we need to decolonize our theology of success A different alternative to an industry of worship The importance of understanding whiteness as a culture Why America needs to be seen as a religion Thoughts on Bad Bunny and rival Super Bowl halftime shows What we can learn from the Maverick City controversy Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Phillip Joubert Common Hymmal Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #376: An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church In America with Phillip Joubert appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Matt’s early years of punk band drumming How Matt connected with Joel Houston and Hillsong Church Staying childlike as a worship leader How to overcome insecurity The making of Matt’s first solo project Matt’s favorite Hillsong song he’s been a part of Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Interlude by Matt Crocker Matt Crocker Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #375: Music & Ministry After Hillsong With Matt Crocker appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Part of my desire with this podcast is to highlight voices – important voices that may not break through into the Christian mainstream, but powerful and necessary voices nonetheless. One of those voices is the Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity Church of Christ in Chicago. Dr Moss is a pastor, author, theologian, filmmaker and one of the very best preachers in America today. And I say that without hyperbole. In this interview I talk with Dr. Moss about the black theological tradition, the black church, black music history, black worship, and what the global church can learn from this heroic, innovative, beautiful expression of the church today. This is an important conversation. A necessary conversation for racial unity and moral clarity in polarizing times where history is at risk of being either forgotten or rewritten. Dr. Moss is an amazing communicator. This conversation is full of history, theology, stories, culture, and the celebration of innovative people throughout history. This isn’t just about political cheap shots. This is a celebration of the diversity and beauty of God. Topics Covered: The story of Dr. Moss’s call to ministry and his early career aspirations Why Dr. Moss and his church is “unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian” Why “black theology” is a helpful categorization What America can learn about democracy from jazz music Why politics is not about right or left What is happening in Chicago right now and why the church can’t stay silent Why every pastor needs a mentor outside of their cultural tradition What pastors can learn from professional athletes Otis’ favorite books, movies, & documentaries Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III (website) Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III (instagram) Trinity United Church of Christ Jesus And The Disinherited by Howard Thurman The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois Poetry Unbound: 50 Poems to Open Your World by Padraig O Tuama The New Abolition: W.E.B. Du Bois and the Black Social Gospel by Gary Dorrien Black in Blues: How a Color Tells the Story of My People by Imani Perry Dancing in the Darkness: Spiritual Lessons for Thriving in Turbulent Times by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Blue Note Preaching in a Post Soul World: Finding Hope in an Age of Despair by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Otis’ Dream Soundtrack to a Coup d’Etat Daughters of the Dust Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #374: What We Can All Learn From The Theological And Musical Tradition Of The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

What happens when Americans lose faith in their religious institutions – and politicians fill the void? As you study the scope of American history – and church history in America – you see an interesting connection to charisma. Charismatic leaders rise to prominence and galvanize a following. From the puritans and Andrew Jackson to black nationalists and Donald trump, the saga of American charisma stars figures who possess a bewildering power to move crowds. Charismatic leaders address spiritual needs, inviting followers into a story that gives them knowledge, power, and heroic status, whether as divinely chosen instruments of God or those who will restore national glory. This is the subject of historian Molly Worthen’s new book Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From the Puritans to Donald Trump. Molly is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a freelance journalist. She teaches courses on North American religion and politics, global Christianity, and the history of ideas. Suffice it to say she is brilliant. I wanted to talk to Molly because her new book feels relevant to our current political climate, but also because charisma the personality trait and charisma the power of the Holy Spirit – is important to understand church history. It’s also important to understand worship and church and the gatherings that we lead. Topics Covered: The declining trust in institutions from 1970 until now The difference between charisma and charm The charismatic leaders of 20th century religious revivals The rise of hyper partisan politics in the American Church What we can learn from the life and politics of Charlie Kirk Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Spell-Bound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump by Molly Worthen Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #373: How Charisma Has Shaped American History And Church History with Molly Worthen appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

I’ve said for years that being a senior pastor is one of the most difficult jobs in the world. Yes, you have the responsibility to shepherd people and preach the Word of God. And when growth comes fast, you are forced to become a CEO of a corporation, in addition to pastoring people. You all of a sudden have a large staff and financial pressures that weigh heavily. But even more challenging – in my opinion – is pastoring in America where – for many Americans – faith is tied to their politics. This was no more evident in the wake of the terrible assassination of Charlie Kirk. If you were paying attention, you could see every imaginable reaction to his death in pulpits across America. A week after this happened, I invited my friend Alan Hannah to have a conversation. Alan is the Lead Pastor of a historic, thriving multicultural church in the city of Pittsburgh called ACAC – Allegheny Center Alliance Church. I didn’t want to throw around opinions about Charlie Kirk as much as I wanted to talk about how do we pastor people in a polarizing political climate? ACAC is a true multicultural church – diverse ethnically, socio-economically, and very diverse politically. Prior to Alan becoming the senior pastor, ACAC had been on a significant journey in the 90s of addressing white supremacy and racist ideologies in their church. At the time, ACAC was predominantly white and looked nothing like the community they were called to serve. Repentance, courageous vision, and education went a long way. And today, ACAC continues to fight for their missions statement: following Jesus in diverse community. This conversation is a little bit about Charlie Kirk, but it’s more about disentangling Jesus from our politics to realize the enemy is not on the other side of the voting bloc. How do we pastor people in cultural moments like this in a biblical way? How do we address racism as a church? What does it take to actually become a health multicultural church? I’ll give you a hint: it’s more than hiring a black worship leader. Alan and I discuss this and so much more in this insightful, balanced, pastoral conversation. Topics Covered: The journey from Worship & Creative Pastor to Lead Pastor Transitioning from a white, suburban, homogenous church to an inner city, multicultural environment The cliche answer to ministry fruitfulness that shouldn’t be a cliche The troubled and difficult history of ACAC and how they began to embrace diversity as a church How to address racism as a multicultural congregation How to pastor republicans and democrats in the same church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center ACAC Jesus Outside the Lines by Scott Sauls Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #372: How To Pastor Your Church Through Polarizing Political Times with Pastor Alan Hannah appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Just because something is “Christian” or has the label “Worship” on it does not mean its existence is completely sanctified. The truth is, the church exists in the world and is susceptible to any manner of abuse or dysfunction that any organization is. The same could be said for CCM or worship music. Worship Music still exists within the music industry. And that’s why it’s helpful to study the mechanisms that drive the worship music industry and how that affects local church worship leaders. I know for many, this is an uncomfortable topic to address. But the truth is, it can only help us be more wide awake to what is happening at the intersection of industry and ministry. The industry is always going to industry. Industry is designed to make money. I don’t have much hope for reform or change within the worship music industry…and that’s ok. What matters is how we respond to the machine of industry as local church pastors and worship leaders. That’s why I wanted to bring my friends Marc and Shannan from Worship Leader Research on the pod today. They released an article recently called Worship’s Mostly Male Power Players: The Rise of the Songwriting Family. The article – and this podcast interview – dissects the worship songwriting trends of the 2020s – what we have seen 5 years in as it relates to the top songs being sung in churches all over the world. We also look back at the 2010s and compare those trends to what we’re seeing today. Worship Leader Research is doing some fascinating work that is keeping us wide eyed to actual data and what that could mean for our local churches. This isn’t some ploy to expose fraud, abuse, or capitalism in the church. It’s looking at the data and coming to pastoral conclusions for our local communities so we can all create healthier churches and worship cultures. Topics Covered: Why many have a difficult time evaluating worship industry realities Worship trends in the 2010s How worship movements dominate a market Why influential worship movements may not write the best songs Why small songwriters and movements should feel empowered Worship songwriting trends in the 2020s Why songwriting has become more of a “family” endeavor What we can learn about the rise of Brandon Lake Why so few women are involved in the top worship songs The “Billy Graham rule” as it applies to songwriting Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Worship Leader Research Worship’s Mostly Male Power Players: The Rise of the Songwriting Family @worshipleaderresearch @marcjolicoeur @shannan.k.baker Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #371: Worship And Songwriting Trends Of The Last 15 Years with Worship Leader Research appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with historian, author, and activist Dr. Jemar Tisby. Early in 2025 I decided to read more history. Call it curiosity or wanting more context to our current political moment, I started to devour books about the Civil War and eventually more books about the Civil Rights era. One of those books was The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church’s Complicity in Racism. And to be honest, I was blown away by this book. Mainly because I had never learned this stuff growing up. I’d learned history…but I hadn’t learned this history. Why does this matter? I believe to my core that if we are unwilling to face and reckon with the darker parts of our history, we will continue to make the same mistakes. A quote that has been attributed to Mark Twain: History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme. We are living in an incredibly dangerous and polarizing political moment in America. And like Jemary Tisby says in our podcast…what happens in culture is downstream of what happens in the church. So we’re going to face some hard truths today. Reckon with some hard truths. And come out better on the other side. Jamar is a brilliant scholar and teacher. He’s bold yet gracious. And I’m excited to share this conversation with you today. As always, thank you for listening. This is David Santistevan and you can reach out to me at any time at [email protected] Topics Covered: Jamar’s salvation story in the white evangelical church What the Mississippi Delta teaches us about American racism The church’s complicity in racism throughout history Doug Wilson and the spread of racist ideology The unique atrocity of American race-based, chattel slavery Why leftist, Marxist, DEI deflections are lazy and don’t make sense Racial bias in the Christian Music industry Resources Mentioned Jemar Tisby Substack The Color of Compromise: The Truth About The American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Jamar Tisby The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, & Resistance by Jamar Tisby Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #370: The Truth About The American Church’s Complicity in Racism (And Where We Go From Here) with Jemar Tisby appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is returning to our roots at BSW – talking with a worship leader about worship. We’ve been talking to academics and historians – which we will continue to do – but sometimes it feels good to throw it back and have a good ole worship leader conversation. Lizzie Morgan is a gifted young worship leader who grew up in the church and has been singing her whole life. She auditioned for Lauren Daigle, sang with Lauren, and has since been a part of tours with Maverick City, Red Worship, and various other groups. I loved this conversation because of where it went. If you know me – I get a little bored with just talking about worship songwriting and worship records. Sorry, I just do…but this conversation went somewhere I didn’t anticipate – talki ng about how different generations have viewed church and worship and what we can learn from that. What did previous generations do well? What regrets do they have? What previous generations have passed down…does the next generation even want it? We also talk about building setlist, flow, reimagining how we do worship, as well as Lizzie’s new record Not My Will. Topics Covered: Lizzie’s upbringing in the United Pentecostal Church An audition that changed Lizzie’s life What Lizzie learned about worship from her family growing up The difference between generations and the tensions of walking with charismatic gifts Why singing only select songs from a few movements is hurting us How to build creative setlist Why Lizzie decided to do a live worship record Why saying yes to God’s will is so difficult Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Not My Will by Lizzie Morgan Lizzie Morgan Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #369: Church Styles, Worship Styles, & Multi-Generational Setlists with Lizzie Morgan appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

As a young worship leader, I used to ask myself the question: “Why is worship such a big deal?” Not in the sense of “God isn’t worthy of it…” but I realized there were no worship leaders in the Bible. Lots of singing. And our church gatherings are built around worship. And there’s a worship industry. And a constant stream of songs and songwriters. It’s a big deal in our modern church culture. I consoled myself with the thought that God is worthy of it. We sing so much because he’s worthy. We write so many songs because he’s worthy. We have so many services because he’s worthy. And while that might not be wrong… has our emphasis on worship led us to an imbalance in our gatherings? Has our emphasis on worship being all about God, led us to neglect the very real horizontal aspects of ministry and discipleship? I wanted to talk about it. My guest today is Dr. Tom Wadsorth, New Testament scholar whose doctoral dissertation was why the first century church did not use worship language when it described its gathering. I know that is controversial. This is a worship podcast. You may be a worship leader. You may be a songwriter who resources the church with new songs. We’re not talking about removing worship and singing from the church. That would be an obvious Biblical misinterpretation. What we are looking at is how did the first century church view its gathering and what can we learn from it today? Because I don’t know about you – it’s possible to worship, listen to sermons, and give in the offering for a lifetime and not mature in my faith. Our churches are full… and growing numerically…but are people maturing in their faith?  What would it look like for us to reimagine our gatherings? This is controversial. You may disagree some. But I think it’s a healthy theme for us to wrestle with. Topics Covered: What constituted the gathering of first century Christians Why worship language would be foreign to the first century church When the shift happened in church history from edification to worship Power and control dynamics throughout church history Why preaching is not a New Testament concept How to balance mega and small church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Tom Wadsworth 7 Part Series on The Christian Assembly Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #368: Why The Early Church Didn’t Have Worship Services: A Conversation with Dr. Tom Wadsworth appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation gets a little political. I’m talking with Matthew D. Taylor about his book The Violent Take it By Force: The Christian Movement that is Threatening Our Democracy. That title may sound like an angry rant against anyone who voted for Donald Trump. Some sort of desperate ploy by a Democrat to take a cheap shot. It is absolutely not that. America is a democracy. Every US citizen has a right to vote for who they want to vote for. This is not a critique about Donald Trump or anyone who voted for him. What we’re talking about a sect of Independent Charismatic Christianity that has become incredibly influential in the last 25 years and has wedded charismatic spirituality with a messianic understanding of Donald Trump. And these are the leaders who are closely connected to the White House today. What does this have to do with worship? Well, it shouldn’t have much of anything to do with worship but it has been interesting to see Christian worship music and some of the more influential worship movements become so aligned with President Trump. When worship hits the mainstream in such a significant way, it’s worth studying why. Is it a religious revival or is worship or Christianity being used as a tool for empire?  Topics Covered: C. Peter Wagner and the alliance between church growth and charismatic theology The New Apostolic Reformation and why it’s important we understand it A definition of Dominion Theology The Seven Mountain Mandate and how popular this ideology is Why not all charismatic/pentecostal movements and theology are dangerous Paula White and the prosperity Gospel The proper context of Mathew 11:12 The problem with partnering American politics with Christian extremism How we got to where we are today with “apostles” and “prophets” Why charismatic Christianity is so fixated on revival Che Ahn and his network’s merging with the American Militia movement The story of Donald Trump and the Christians instrumental in his rise to power The Sean Feucht saga and what we can learn from it Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center The Violent Take it By Force: The Christian Movement That is Threatening Our Democracy by Matthew D. Taylor Matthew D. Taylor Substack Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #367: The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy with Matthew D. Taylor appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

On July 25, 2025 Isaac Caree released a podcast interview with Norman Gyamfi. Norman is a music industry executive and part owner of Maverick City Music. Suffice it to say, this conversation created a firestorm of controversy and conversation around Gospel Music, CCM, and the racial tension embedded within the music industry. We know these things are going on, but for maybe the first time – a business executive let it ALL out. Being that Beyond Sunday is a podcast about worship and the church, I wanted to talk about it so I decided to invite Rick Robinson, a Gospel Music vet onto the show to break down what Norman said and why it is so problematic. One of the things Rick says in the interview is: “Gospel music is a sound. Gospel music is a culture.” And while it’s ok to reinvent and innovate, the beauty of Gospel music does not need toned down or whitewashed in order to succeed. If we do that, we lose the heart and soul of what makes Gospel music what it is. Topics Covered: The history of Gospel Music in Chicago The important difference between ministry and industry The difference between the sacred music of Gospel and the business of Gospel Music The difference between the members of Maverick City and the brand of Maverick City How Norman let us see behind the curtain of industry Why Norman admitting he was a Trump supporter didn’t bolster his argument The problem with anti-black rhetoric, especially coming from a black man Why worship should be its own award category Why artists need to first and foremost be authentic Confronting the racial tensions in the music industry Why black artists are constantly pitched songs by white songwriters but white artists rarely do songs from black artists Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Rick Robinson Otis Blackwell/David Letterman Interview Yacht Rock: A Documentary Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #366: The Truth About The Gospel Industry That Is Actually True with Rick Robinson appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Growing up and learning music in the black church Leading multigenerational worship The crazy story of how John was “discovered” Overcoming insecurity and fear The purpose and privilege of corporate worship Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Jon Reddick No Fear by Jon Reddick Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #365: Artist Insecurity, Fear, & The Servant-Hearted Worship Leader with Jon Reddick appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with Pastor and author Brian Zahnd. Brian is the founding and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St Joseph, MO and the author of 11 books. Brian is not my pastor, but he’s one of the voices I look to in this cultural moment. He’s a voice of clarity, sanity, history, and Bible. Here’s a quick quote from the interview: “I’m convinced the greatest task of the pastoral vocation in America is discipling people who have already thoroughly been discipled into a rival religion.” Topics Covered: The story of how Word of Life Church lost 1500 people Why America is a rival religion to Christianity Why America is more akin to Babylon than ancient Israel How the charismatic movement went awry Why charismatic worship is so aligned with DT and Christian nationalism Why music, literature, and films are important to Brian How Brian uses music to write sermons Brian’s reading habits Why Brian is reading the KJV right now Why reading fiction is so important to preaching and theology Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Brian Zahnd instagram.com/brianzahnd Postcards from Babylon: The Church in American Exile by Brian Zahnd Radical Forgiveness by Brian Zahnd (the book Brian refused to be interviewed on the Paula White show with) Water to Wine: Some of My Story by Brian Zahnd (a great overview of Brian’s church story) Septology by Jon Fosse Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #364: The Rival Religion of America and A Prophetic Call to Pastors with Brian Zahnd appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: How Dustin got involved in worship ministry The challenge with young artists and worship leaders who taste success early Why the CCM system is broken Practical ways to reform the Christian music industry How we set up young worship leaders for failure New Sanctus Real music Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Sanctus Real You Are I Am by Sanctus Real Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #363: The Current State Of Christian Music with Dustin Lolli From Sanctus Real appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

One my favorite books this year was Be The Bridge: Pursuing God’s Heart for Racial Reconciliation by Latasha Morrison. A wonderful book that is challenging but also compassionate and full of grace. We’ve waded into conversations like this recently with Nikki Lerner, Darwin Hobbs, and David Gate. Why are we doing this? Because I truly believe it matters. It matters for our souls, our relationships, our churches, and our nation. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend like it’s not an issue or we can move closer to one another be the bridge in this work of reconciliation. Latasha founded Be the Bridge in 2016 to encourage racial reconciliation among all ethnicities, to promote racial unity in America, and to equip others to do the same. In this conversation we go pretty deep. We talk about Latasha’s ministry work, being hired in both black and white churches, brown faces in white spaces (another one of Latasha’s books), the challenge with being a multicultural church today, the church’s complicity in racism throughout history, why facing the darkest parts of our history matters, music and racial bias, and so much more. Topics Covered: Latasha’s church staff experience in black and white churches The courage it takes to pursue multicultural ministry Why multicultural churches are the healthy, growing churches of the future Power dynamics in race relations The differences between white leaders of multicultural churches and black leaders of multicultural churches The church’s complicity in racism and why ignoring it is not “unity” Facing the darkest parts of our history with courage Music and racial bias Resources: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Be The Bridge by Latasha Morrison Brown Faces White Spaces by Latasha Morrison Be The Bridge (Latasha’s organization) David Gate Interview – Two White Guys Talking about The Black Church, Black Music, & Black Liberation Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #362: Is Racial Reconciliation and a Healthy Multicultural Church Possible? An interview with Latasha Morrison appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

So we talk a lot about the worship industry on this podcast. Sometimes that conversation can result in a let’s just wine and complain about how awful it is. But my guests today are not content with that sort of negativity! It will not be tolerated! But here’s the reality: The music industry is built on financial inequality and the worship industry is no different. Those at the top often make a killing, while many musicians and artists struggle to survive. I sat down with @cmcclarney & @thejessephillips from @realfunrecords to talk about it. We’re pulling back the worship industry curtain just a bit to imagine a better way. Well, they are imagining a better way. Many professional musicians you know and love from hit records have no stake in the songs they play on. They essentially get a day rate of $100-$200. Artists have so much money they need to pay back that it’s not sustainable for creativity or a career. Chris & Jesse are forging a new path in a space steeped in “but we’ve always done it this way”.  Topics Covered: The money problem with the music industry Artist empowerment and what it means Equitable and fair partnerships with musicians Why you should think about writing your own songs The impact of streaming Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Real Fun Records Martin Smith Interview Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #361: Reimagining the Worship Industry with Chris McClarney and Jesse Phillips appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is a bit of a departure from our usual worship leader/worship industry conversation. I’m talking with Stanley Hauerwas. Here’s his bio: Stanley Hauerwas, a theologian and Christian ethicist, is professor emeritus of theological ethics and of law at Duke University. He is the author or editor of more than fifty books, including Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony (1989), which he co-authored with William H. Willimon. His lower-middle-class upbringing informed his later approach to theological and ethical questions (at one point, he was apprenticed to his father, a bricklayer). In 2001, Time magazine named Hauerwas “America’s Best Theologian”; he replied that “best” is not a theological category. Stanley will turn 85 this year. I’m new to Stanley’s work but absolutely devoured his new book Jesus Changes Everything as well as his landmark work, Resident Aliens. I find his thinking incredibly helpful in navigating our current times. He don’ts pull any punches or hide behind any veneer of religiosity.  Topics Covered: Stanley’s love of travel and baseball How Stanley came to faith in Christ The influence of Karl Barth How Stanley “got saved” The similarities between evangelicalism and protestant liberalism How Christian “experience” gets us off track How Jesus changes everything Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Jesus Changes Everything: A New World Made Possible by Stanley Hauerwas Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony by Stanley Hauerwas Lives of the Saints by Fr. Alban Butler Dogmatics in Outline by Karl Barth God Matters by Herbert McCabe Friendship and Ways to Truth by David Burrell Naming God: Addressing the Divine in Philosophy, Theology, and Scripture by Janet Soskice Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #360: The Church, Culture, & How Jesus Changes Everything with Stanley Hauerwas appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s interview is with Glenn Packiam – if you’re not familiar with Glenn, he’s one of the modern worship OGs. I mean, Desperation Band, new Life Worship. He wrote the song Your Name with Paul Baloche. But over the years Glenn’s journey has moved from worship ministry to pastoral ministry. He was the campus pastor at New Life Church’s downtown campus in CO and is now the Lead Pastor at Rock Harbor in Orange County, CA. Glenn is a deep well and a balanced voice in the church. In this interview we break down his recent book “What’s a Christian Anyway” a wonderful book based on the Nicene creed. We talk about how we can glean insights from various church traditions, why creeds are important, why the church’s reputation is suffering in America today, how lead pastors and worship leaders can understand each other better, and what to look for in hiring a worship pastor. Topics Covered: We talk about how we can glean insights from various church traditions Why creeds are important Why the church’s reputation is suffering in America today How lead pastors and worship leaders can understand each other better What to look for in hiring a worship pastor. So let’s get right to my conversation with Glenn Packiam. Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center What’s a Christian Anyway: Finding Our Way in an Age of Confusion and Corruption by Glenn Packiam What’s a Christian Anyway website No Rules Rules: Netflix and the Culture of Innovation by Reed Hastings & Erin Meyer Steps: A Guide to Transforming Your Life When Willpower Isn’t Enough by John Ortberg Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #359: Christianity in Chaos? How We Can Find Our Way In An Age of Confusion and Corruption with Glenn Packiam appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s topic and subject matter is a tough one. I’m talking with my friend David Gate. David is a writer and poet. He has a new book releasing in 2025 called A Rebellion of Care. But David also has a long history as a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. David wrote an article recently in response to the new Ryan Coogler move Sinners, starring Michael B Jordan. The title of that article was “How White Charismatic Worship Stole from the Black Church: The Vampires who steal stories and songs and culture.” I know. It’s a bold, often cutting article. And while I don’t agree with everything he says, I believe he gets to the heart of a tension that many feel. As with most of American culture throughout history, we have not given due credit to the black church. To black music. Black innovation. We have borrowed (or as David would say – stolen) from black culture and profited wildly off of its innovation and yet have not cared about black liberation in the white charismatic church. Which is the heart of what this conversation is about. Topics Covered: A breakdown of the movie “Sinners” The theft of black music and culture The beauty and story of the Black Church Performance in Black vs White contexts Becoming aware the causes of black liberation The influence of the blues on white rock & roll Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center David Gate Poet instagram.com/davidgatepoet A Rebellion of Care by David Gate (preorder) Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #358: Two White Guys Talking About The Black Church, Black Music, & Black Liberation (An Interview with David Gate) appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with my friend Andy Cherry. Andy is a Worship Leader, former Worship Pastor, Songwriter with Capitol CMG, and touring bandmate with Brandon Lake. Andy is mega talented and a thoughtful voice on the tensions of worship and industry. As a professional songwriter, he’s someone whose livelihood is connected to the worship industry. We have a great chat about excellence culture in the church. Has it gone too far? Why it’s uncomfortable to combine the words “worship” and “industry”.   Why we need to expand the kinds of leaders we hire into Worship Pastor roles. At the heart of it all is a love for Jesus, a passion for His presence, and a desire to serve the people of God through honest art and biblical faithfulness. Topics Covered: Early influential records The problem with our performance culture in church Separating concert from church Why we need to write about more topics Andy’s songwriting & creative process Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Andy Cherry instagram.com/andycherry Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #357: The Separation of Church and Concert with Andy Cherry appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with Dr. Lester Ruth, a research professor of Christian Worship at Duke Divinity School. If you go back in the archives you’ll see I interviewed Lester and Swee Hong Lim around the time they released their book A History of Contemporary Praise & Worship. Lester is a worship historian. The subject of this interview is about Christian Nationalism and Worship, a new course that Lester has been teaching. I wanted to interview Lester about this because I believe it has so much relevance to our current political climate, the church, and our worship practices. Now…I know anything political tends to bring out some tensions. And this may cause some frustration for you. But the goal here is not to be partisan or take sides. We’re merely looking at the history of Christian nationalism today and even around the world. We talk about the three strands of Christian nationalism in the US today. We talk about the intersection of worship and christian nationalism and how that influences the kinds of songs we sing. We also talk about how we can have healthier dialogue together, no matter our political differences. We even end the podcast with some Civil War history and Lester’s reading habits/suggestions. Topics Covered: The 3 Strands of Christian Nationalism in the United States today The global nature of religions nationalism How worship can be co-opted by Christian nationalism The surprising religious beliefs of our nation’s founders Civil War history and how it relates to Christian Nationalism Worship Industry tensions Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Beatitudes Through The Ages by Rebekah Eklund The Violent Take it By Force: The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy by Matthew D. Taylor The Demon of Unrest: A Saga of Hubris, Heartbreak, & Heroism at the Dawn of the Civil War by Erik Larson And There Was Light: Abraham Lincoln and the American Struggle by Jon Meacham Lincoln at Gettysburg: The Words that Remade America by Garry Wills April 1865: The Month that Saved America (Civil War Sagas) by Jay Winik Upon the Altar of a Nation: A Moral History of the Civil War by Harry Stout Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #356: Christian Nationalism and Worship: Faith, Politics, & Identity with Dr. Lester Ruth appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with Andrew Osenga. Andrew is an artist, songwriter, producer, musician, and author. He used to do A&R with Integrity Music. Used to have a band called The Normals. Was a part of Caedmon’s Call. Has a host of solo records and albums. He’s a very thoughtful voice in this space of worship and spiritual formation. He leads a project called Anchor Hymns. This was a deep, far ranging conversation. Topics Covered: Why we didn’t need to be sheltered from all thing secular How radio and Christian product has influenced our worship songwriting How fundamentalism warped our view of hymns Local church songwriting Why we need to write worship songs about more diverse topics Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Andrew Osenga Anchor Hymns Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #355: How Industry And Christian Product Has Influenced Worship in the Local Church with Andrew Osenga appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is an interesting juxtaposition to last week’s podcast with Jason Houtsma. Jason leads worship in a church of less than 100 people. Today’s guest – Jordan Howerton – is the Worship Pastor for one of the largest churches in the country – Christ’s Church of the Valley in Phoenix, AZ. If you’ve listened to the my podcast for a while, you’ll know I don’t believe bigger is better. There is beauty in small. There is dignity in serving and pastoring a small church with incremental or slow growth year after year. But for today, I want us to dive into the mega church dynamic. What does it take to lead a staff of 70 people in worship and production? How can you care for and pastor hundreds of volunteers? How do you develop a unified worship culture across 18 campuses? We dive into all of that here. My conversation with Jordan Howerton Topics Covered: Growing up in a small church + small church dynamics The challenge of being a worship leader today Why we need to make local church ministry great again Why God is moving in mega churches Dysfunction in both small and large churches Discipleship for your worship team What resources CCV uses to support their worship teams Why CCV doesn’t provide chord charts to their teams Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor: Planning Center CCV Music Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies.  One of the questions I hear often is what are the best ways to further your training as a worship leader? Many worship pastors jump right into full time ministry out of college or ministry school. While practical ministry experience is necessary, it is often incomplete. You need a theological, historical, and biblical framework to sustain a healthy worship ministry today. Otherwise, it becomes a game of chasing fads and maintaining the status quo.  I can’t recommend the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies enough. IWS offers academically and spiritually rich doctoral and master’s programs in worship studies, designed to transform you as a leader and deepen your connection to God’s purpose for worship. The focus is all about discipling worship leaders to disciple worshipers, which we need more of in the church today. If you’re searching for something truly unique, IWS is the place for you. Visit IWS.edu and use the code BEYOND2025 for a discount. Now is the time to start your journey toward a more meaningful and impactful worship ministry.  Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #354: Leading Teams and Leading Worship in a Mega Church with Jordan Howerton appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Playing actual live music in worship The small church community Comparing large church/high production to small church/low production Why you might NOT want to use clicks and tracks Taking risks and being creative in worship again Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor: Planning Center Scars by Jason Houtsma Worship Artistry My Name is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies.  One of the questions I hear often is what are the best ways to further your training as a worship leader? Many worship pastors jump right into full time ministry out of college or ministry school. While practical ministry experience is necessary, it is often incomplete. You need a theological, historical, and biblical framework to sustain a healthy worship ministry today. Otherwise, it becomes a game of chasing fads and maintaining the status quo.  I can’t recommend the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies enough. IWS offers academically and spiritually rich doctoral and master’s programs in worship studies, designed to transform you as a leader and deepen your connection to God’s purpose for worship. The focus is all about discipling worship leaders to disciple worshipers, which we need more of in the church today. If you’re searching for something truly unique, IWS is the place for you. Visit IWS.edu and use the code BEYOND2025 for a discount. Now is the time to start your journey toward a more meaningful and impactful worship ministry.  Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #353: Small Church Worship, Click Tracks, & How Anyone Can Make a Worship Album with Jason Houtsma appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Coffee snobbery John’s favorite US (and international) coffee shops How to extend your vocal range Caring for the person, not the just the gifting The importance of staying rooted in a local church The dangers of ego and self centeredness in ministry Sonship Time restraints in worship Structure and flow in worship Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor: Planning Center Dealing With the Rejection and Praise of Man by Bob Sorge Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday Deeply Coffee Lineage Coffee Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies.  One of the questions I hear often is what are the best ways to further your training as a worship leader? Many worship pastors jump right into full time ministry out of college or ministry school. While practical ministry experience is necessary, it is often incomplete. You need a theological, historical, and biblical framework to sustain a healthy worship ministry today. Otherwise, it becomes a game of chasing fads and maintaining the status quo.  I can’t recommend the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies enough. IWS offers academically and spiritually rich doctoral and master’s programs in worship studies, designed to transform you as a leader and deepen your connection to God’s purpose for worship. The focus is all about discipling worship leaders to disciple worshipers, which we need more of in the church today. If you’re searching for something truly unique, IWS is the place for you. Visit IWS.edu and use the code BEYOND2025 for a discount. Now is the time to start your journey toward a more meaningful and impactful worship ministry.  Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #352: Discipleship, Ego, & Pursuing the Presence of God in Your Local Church with John Wilds appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with Natalie Runion – Natalie is a worship leader, author, speaker, and founder of the online community Raised to Stay. She’s written two books – Raised to Stay and The House that Jesus Built, both powerful, insightful reads into the realities of local church ministry. In this conversation we talk about worship ministry tensions, aging out of ministry roles, challenges for women in ministry, the idol of green room culture, responding to church hurt, and why our obsession with church growth can get us off track. Natalie is bold, challenging, and an important voice to the church today. Topics Covered: How Natalie discovered this concept of “Raised to Stay” Worship as a church growth tool How to approach a full time ministry role Why our emphasis on leadership is hurting our leadership The idol of green rooms The entitlement of worship leaders Why the conversation around “anointing” needs to change The tension and struggle of being a female worship pastor Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor: Planning Center Raised to Stay (website) Raised to Stay: Persevering in Ministry When You Have a Million Reasons to Walk Away by Natalie Runion The House That Jesus Built: Leading Our Churches Back to God’s Original Blueprint by Natalie Runion Instagram.com/raisedtostay Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies. One of the questions I hear often is what are the best ways to further your training as a worship leader? Many worship pastors jump right into full time ministry out of college or ministry school. While practical ministry experience is necessary, it is often incomplete. You need a theological, historical, and biblical framework to sustain a healthy worship ministry today. Otherwise, it becomes a game of chasing fads and maintaining the status quo.  I can’t recommend the Robert E Webber Institute for Worship Studies enough. IWS offers academically and spiritually rich doctoral and master’s programs in worship studies, designed to transform you as a leader and deepen your connection to God’s purpose for worship. The focus is all about discipling worship leaders to disciple worshipers, which we need more of in the church today. If you’re searching for something truly unique, IWS is the place for you. Visit IWS.edu and use the code BEYOND2025 for a discount. Now is the time to start your journey toward a more meaningful and impactful worship ministry. Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #351: Anointing Over Gifting, Women in Worship, & Evaluating the Foundation of Our Ministries with Natalie Runion appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Unlearning and deciphering mega church worship models Why it’s not our job to move the room Trusting the Holy Spirit as a worship leader How the Church Growth movement has effected the role of worship leaders Why we have elevated young leaders too soon An alternative to big, massive, mega church worship Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Level Up Coaching for Female Creatives w/ Becky Ykema Becky’s website How Firm a Foundation by Hymns of the People Pastors, Priests, & Guides – the retreat that Becky is a part of Slingshot Group – Staffing & Coaching for churches & nonprofits Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #350: Deciphering, Unlearning, and Reframing Mega Church Worship Models with Becky Ykema appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Why Gospel Music is fringe within the church Why we need diversity and how to encourage it Matters of race and racism in the church Finding your voice and being comfortable in your own skin Why we don’t understand the systemic nature of racism and can’t always see it Darwin’s upcoming new Setlist project Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Darwin Hobbs website (Heart Art Worship) Champion by Darwin Hobbs Darwin Hobbs Instagram Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #349: Darwin Hobbs on Finding Your Voice, Gospel Music in the Church, & Why We Can’t Stop Talking About Racism. appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: The story behind David’s new studio The importance of creating in community The challenges of being a Christian artist in 2025 What is exciting about worship music today Challenges with worship music today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Just Jesus by David Leonard David Leonard Gruhn Guitars Deliver Me From Nowhere: The Making of Bruce Springsteen’s Nebraska by Warren Zanes Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #348: David Leonard on Creating in Community, Corporate Worship, & The Challenges of Being an Artist appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today we welcome Jeff Cochran to the Beyond Sunday Podcast. Jeff is the founder of the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the host of the Church Disrupted podcast. Jeff is a business owner, church consultant, and has spent many years in local church ministry. His insights into spiritual abuse, church systems, and creating healtheir churches is so insightful. These are TOUGH TOPICS but so necessary to talk about so that we not only create GROWING church but also SAFE churches, free of abusive practices. Topics Covered: The definition of spiritual abuse and how to spot it Why pastors have a hard time admitting to their faults Spiritual abuse in small and mega churches What is especially challenging about mega church culture Mega church growth systems and what to be aware of How spiritual abuse finds its way into worship ministry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Spiritual Abuse Institute The Safe Church Pledge Church Disrupted Podcast Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #347: Jeff Cochran on Spiritual Abuse, Mega Church Systems, & Fostering Healthier Worship Ministries appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: The Religious Exemption and what it means How we can use worship as a subtle form of manipulation The mega church structure and the dangers associated with it Integrity in church financials The upcoming Religious Business documentary Accountability in the church and a robust hope for the future Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center @thereligionbusiness Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #346: Nathan Apffel & Chris Ayoub on The Religion Business appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: How New Life Fellowship cultivates a multicultural community How to hold the contemplative and the charismatic together How to lead congregations with different political views Why church growth is unhealthy to obsess over Pastoring people through racial tension A biblical view of worship ministry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Rich Villodas @richvillodas The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas Good and Beautiful and Kind by Rich Villodas The Narrow Path by Rich Villodas Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #345: Rich Villodas on Contemplative vs Charismatic Tensions, Church Growth, & The Narrow Path of Jesus appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

“We’ve made the list of everything that could go wrong. It’s time to make the list of everything that could go right.” – Nikki Lerner Topics Covered: What it’s like to leave full time ministry after 20+ years The challenge of doing ministry when you’re paid to do it full time The importance of creative outlets outside of the church What to do when you’re bored with worship music Nikki’s philosophy of worship How to become a multicultural church The difference between multi colored and multicultural Mono-ethnocentricism and the worship industry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Nikki Lerner Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #344: Nikki Lerner on Life After Full Time Ministry, Worship Culture Conundrums, & Fostering Multicultural Churches appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Malcolm’s story of activism in South Africa Similarities of American culture today with South Africa in the 1970s and 80s. The spiritual underground and what that means What it means to be a Kingdom of Priests The problem with becoming comercially viable The story behind Common Hymnal’s new “Be Love” song Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Be Love by Common Hymnal Common Hymnal The King Center Common Hymnal Patreon Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #343: Malcolm DuPlessis on Racial Tension, Injustice, & The Commercialization of Worship appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: 5 of the biggest needs facing worship leaders right now The reality of worship ministry The difference between artist and worship leader The gift of obscurity The tensions of not earning worship artist fame To use tracks or not to use tracks? Practical tips for speaking from the stage Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Three Streams Worship – Mike’s Ministry Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #342: Mike O’Brien on Worship Artist/Leader Tensions, Local Church Ministry, & The Gift of Obscurity appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Why deconstruction is a prophetic warning to the church Tommy’s deconstruction journey and why he became a Pastor Why most evangelical churches today lack engagement The problem with the worship industry and local church worship Why people are leaving the church Why the modern mega church looks more like Babylon than Christ Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Invisible Jesus by Scot McKnight & Tommy Preson Phillips Tommy’s Substack Preson Phillips Music Watermark Church – where Tommy pastors Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #341: Tommy Preson Phillips on Why People Are Leaving The Church To Look For Christ appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.