How Women Stopped Caring About Relationships (Half the Rate of Men!)

In this engaging episode, Simone and Malcolm dive deep into two fascinating studies. The first explores gender differences in the desire and value placed on romantic relationships, revealing that men have a stronger preference for romance compared to women. They discuss the potential reasons behind this disparity, including societal influences and state support systems. The second study examines how attractiveness influences the speaker fees of scientists in various fields. They find that while attractive social scientists command higher fees, natural scientists who are less attractive earn more for speaking engagements. The hosts also share personal anecdotes and reflections on trauma, societal norms, and the intersection of personal experiences with broader cultural themes. The episode wraps up with a light-hearted discussion about comments from their audience and the quirks of nerdy dating.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be discussing two very interesting studies.

Hmm. The first looks at how much men and women want and value romantic relationships showing that men. Have an overwhelming preference for romance and romantic relationships. We'll get into why that may be. And then in the second we're going to look at how attractiveness affects the speaker price of scientists within various fields.

The what? In some fields, the more attractive they are, the higher they're paid and within other fields, the less attractive they are, the higher they're paid.

Simone Collins: Oh, I have to guess this before we go into it. And guess in the comments. Don't cheat. Don't skip ahead. I wanna see if people get this right. Maybe like obscure scientific fields. I bet neuroscientists are really attractive. Just knowing what you've said about like people in the field and, and then also looking at like the people who work in the field.

And I'm gonna guess that you know what also [00:01:00] archeologists and biologists, I'm gonna say in general really good. I'm gonna say historians and artists who aren't commercial well, like fi, like super modern artists, probably better off looking.

Malcolm Collins: Well, let's see if you're right. All right. Okay, let's, but we're gonna, let's first start on relationships.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm, so, I think this is a really, so why I think this relationships thing is really important to explore, and I wanna just talk with you like in terms of what you think you would do as a man dating today, is that we can't solve the problem of tism so long as women. Really don't have that much drive to marry men.

And this is one of those uncomfortable issues where I do think that like both feminism and currently state support services kind of just really removed everything that used to make women be like, yeah, I'm probably better off. Well, I

Malcolm Collins: also think that the way women date causes them to form negative impressions of men and causes them to undervalue the types of relationships they might be able to get.

That's

Simone Collins: [00:02:00] fair. Yeah. Well, and, and overfocus on it. Like when I look at at least Progressive. Critiques of dating and relationships and social media. It's like, well, I don't wanna be a mother to another like guy. Like, like basically like if you take on a boyfriend or a husband, now you're, you're baby. But that's not I'm, I understand that,

Malcolm Collins: that that's what you perceive because you watch the Twitter people who are trying to make themselves look good, but the core problem women are having in terms of self-perception.

If, if you look at, let's say Tinder where there's a famous statistic that less than 1% of women are swiping right on the average looking guy, right? The vast majority are just swiping on a few guys. So this means that they are likely, even if they think they're in a monogamous relationship, sharing a partner.

And that partner is going to, when he knows that they are very easily replaceable as they are for the top attractiveness and earning men in our society treat them in such a way.

Simone Collins: That also explains a lot. 'cause I was, I was looking at some stats on my own on this front before we started and was really confused when the stats were reporting that [00:03:00] more women than men report themselves as being in relationships.

And I'm like, Hmm, how does that work? Because I'm looking at the US we're roughly, it's 50 50. Yeah. So happening

Malcolm Collins: is that women, and this is where you get this, I hate men thing. And I think that we as men can like be like, oh, well this is just, but. Some of these women, based on their experiences, may really have a reason to feel like every guy is cheating on them because they are.

No, because they kind of are. Yeah. They are not moderated. They, they are not dating women who are men who are actually in their league. Yeah. They are using their sexual league was their marriage market league. They're dating lazy.

Simone Collins: As we've

Malcolm Collins: talked. Yeah. Well also not considering that that lowers their value within the marriage Market league later further confusing them.

Right. But let's go into the statistics on this because there, there's other issues at play here as well. I mean, the other big one before I go into the statistics is that women to get most of the things that they used to get from a relationship from the state these days the core things women often got from a relationship was security.

Support somebody to help care for their kids. You know, there, there is no reason, for example [00:04:00] that 73% of black women today should be having kids out of wedlock. If you look historically when there wasn't as much state support, the black child rate out of wedlock in the 1960s was half. The white child rate out of wedlock, it was 5% to 10%.

And so this is something that is downstream of these support systems which create an alternative. As you've pointed out. Even if you're not talking about the ones who have kids you, you can get this protection by the state for women if you look at the people who actually like used shelters, for example, they are overwhelmingly women.

If you look at the people who are on welfare, I remember I was looking once and it was like a crazy number . No, it was, it was single mothers was the one who was eating it all up. Yeah. Oh,

Simone Collins: well, yeah, sure.

Malcolm Collins: But the, the point here being is that yeah. And find the real number on that 'cause that, that, that's gonna be interesting.

But the point here being is that. Women have sort of become nuns to the state and the urban monoculture, it's like if they just dedicate themselves to it fully, they can receive. And people can be like, well, what about sex? And, and again, you can just look at the statistics. While women might be into like weirder porn than men [00:05:00] on average as you can see by the monster aisle at most mainstream bookstores, the girl monster aisle.

God bless. Yeah, it's a thing. It's like that this girl F's monsters, like, that's a, that's a whole, not even one aisle. I would argue at most bookstores, it's like two to three aisles. If you're talking about a large bookstore, like if men flaunt a, a fetish like that I, I think that they'd be pretty heavily shamed.

I.

Simone Collins: So according to a Pew Research Center survey, 61% of women in the US reported having received at least one major federal entitlement benefit at some point in their lives compared to 49% of men. So more women, but not,

Malcolm Collins: no, no. Hold on. Which you're not checking is how many are currently receiving what bet men are on it?

Less. What percent of entitlements go to women versus men? Hmm.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Not what percent of women and men are on entitlements,

Simone Collins: on, on joint returns, women accounted for only 19% of combined a GI and men paid 82% of the taxes. That's a a, a [00:06:00] adjusted gross income is a GI. So, so

Malcolm Collins: wait, women only paid what percent in taxes?

Simone Collins: 24%. Really? That's wild. Yeah. But that, that was that was in 1979.

So a lot has changed. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm still gonna here. I would've

Malcolm Collins: to surprise if it hadn't moved, maybe in the opposite direction. I

Simone Collins: mean, maybe. And so when I asked what percent of entitlements go to women compared to men, it says women receive a higher share of entitlement benefits compared to men in the United States overall.

Receipt of entitlement, 61% of women. Have received at least one major ENT development. It's not the answer. That's the same one I know, but that's what perplexity ISS telling me. And

Malcolm Collins: this is why, I remember when I looked at this, I found that crazy high number and I was really surprised. And the way I got that crazy high number was looking at the percent of entitlements who were going to single mothers.

Which is what allowed me to calculate the number.

All right. I found an answer here. A 2019 Urban Institute study found that around 65% of welfare, , money goes to women, and about 35% of welfare money goes to men. So women get [00:07:00] about double the amount that men get.

Malcolm Collins: and, and a

Simone Collins: list women, I think the, the big thing is that women know they can fall back on the state. I think men. Can be far less confident of that being the case. Absolutely. Yeah. Also, men, women are more able to legally fall back on men. So a man can't, for example expect that if he ends up a father, he can just.

Garnish the wages of the female partner, right? A woman. I mean, it's very

Malcolm Collins: much the,

Speaker 2: How could you make my son miss an entire semester of school? I mean, it's not like he's a hot girl. He can't just bail on his life and set up shop in someone else's.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So to, to keep going here. Men strive more for romantic relationships. 61% of single men versus 38% of single women reported looking for romantic relationships.

In a recent US study this study was romantic relationships matter or more to men than women. Very on the nose naming there 48% of men versus 28% of women had [00:08:00] experienced love at first sight, a study of 100,000 US adults. Wow. 48% of men versus 28% of women. Wow. That is wild. Did you experience love on first sight?

Simone Collins: Yeah. I

Malcolm Collins: did. You always told me that, but I, I thought it was more my profile that was the love at first sight thing than my looks.

Simone Collins: And it was, it was your looks. And that's even documented in my diary, you know? That's true. I, you're just, oh, my type, you're so hot. And you're, you get hotter. It's so crazy.

Like when I think back at you then I'm like, no, I was not as hot back then. You were at least. At least twice, possibly three times as hot now as you were before. And I was actually just like, on the truth, like truth. On, on the subject of, of you being soy,

Malcolm Collins: This is a, an obsession my wife has built up from replying to comments on this subject. So I ended up moving it to the end, , because I don't think it's relevant to this particular topic.

Yeah. So, but anyway, yeah,

Simone Collins: love, love at first sight. I certainly experienced it, but yeah, I mean, I mean I think it's important to also note though, anecdotally, you know, all this, [00:09:00] all this really resonates with me because where did we come into this, right?

Our first date, you're sitting across from me saying, I'm looking for a wife. I'm not looking to date, and I'm sitting across from you saying I'm looking. Only to date, and I'm gonna live alone forever. Like we had very clear needs and desires and plans, and mine had nothing to do with long-term commitment to a man.

And I think that's the thing is, is the BATNA the best alternative to a negotiated agreement for women. Is to be alone in many cases, especially when contextualized with mainstream society because the benefits of being with a husband are not communicated anywhere.

Malcolm Collins: Anywhere. It's funny that you mention all this because you know, the people I was dating before, you also like where I was finding people.

'cause you're like, what would I be doing in the modern context? Yeah. You look at the one who was our, like groomsman at, at the wedding, the woman but she was on my side because she was a woman, right? Mm-hmm. So what would you call that? A female groomsman anyway grooms. Very cool, very successful, very accomplished.

Yeah. But I met her at the school's [00:10:00] anime screenings Damn street. You know that that is where I was looking for wives, right. Like back then. Mm-hmm. And I, and I understand that things have changed, but, you know, finding people was in these, I, I was trolling for nerds. Like I was only going into places where I was gonna find nerds because I knew I had a disproportionate advantage when I would email people.

I, but I think

Simone Collins: you also wanted smart. Women who would intellectually, well, no, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: by signaling nerdy interests and attitudes and the way you dress and everything like that, you, you signal a, a perspective of your values and your environment. And it wasn't a perfect coalition was mine, but it was something that could be evolved into that over the course of, you know, the, what, 15 years we've been together you know, so.

I think that that works maybe more when you're younger. And that these are Yeah, no, it's not like don't exist anymore.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're a Anna Vains and moving in your trans community of people who refuse to grow up. 'Cause she seemed to have some anime group that she hung out with a lot.

Malcolm Collins: But I bet you could go to that group and find [00:11:00] interesting girls who are tired of the bs. Like, you know, they're

Simone Collins: actually, yes. I mean, well there are adult anime groups then, but. And you know, actually no. I, I think if, when, when I'm thinking of anime conventions, modern anime conventions, there are plenty of single, men and women in their twenties and thirties?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, the key was an environment like that is one, they're gonna be much more woke. So you've got to be careful about how you approach things. And, and two you're, you're in an environment where some people, like if you go to the anime like chain or the chain of like, things were like.

Ren fairs are happening, and I've read a lot of things by, like, Ren Fair Workers is there's like these basically like orgy parties that they do at both. And you want to avoid that crowd.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You, you want to find the, the chaste individual within the nerdy environment which is a very good vetting mechanism.

Simone Collins: Mm. Yeah. And they're there, they're always there. At least in my experience,

Malcolm Collins: men report falling [00:12:00] in love three times on average versus women's two times on average. So what men are,

Simone Collins: that's really interesting. What's

Malcolm Collins: going

Simone Collins: on there?

Malcolm Collins: Well, look, they're, they're, they're not only, only having love at for sight and almost double the rate, but they fall in love.

Yeah. But they're also falling

Simone Collins: in love more. And this is so not the stereotype, you know, the stereotype is the women so romantic, you know, always all, you know, mooning over someone. When it's apparently the opposite. What it, but really though what's going on?

Malcolm Collins: 70% of couples agreed that the male partner said, I love you first.

Ah, that's also so not the stereotype. Well, it's sort of like a proposal, right? Like I think men are exp I always thought that men were expected to say it first.

Simone Collins: You said it first to me, but you said it. I think I might love you manipulating you. I think I might love you. No, no, no. You, you, you, the, the, the actual statement that you shared was, you know, a little, a little couch.

But it was very cute. It was very, I was like, Hmm. You know, yeah. It's so sweet. I didn't need to say anything. 'cause you already knew. I was like [00:13:00] madly annoying. I was enthralled. Yeah. It didn't matter.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, it, when people can watch our videos about, like, my wife is less in love with me now and I like, you may think I'm hotter now, but you're less like.

Pathologically obsessed with me. You were like full on yore in our early relationship. And, but

Simone Collins: I know. Yeah, but I didn't, do I do way more things for you now? No. You, I love way more now. We're committed to you now. I, I am more content with you now.

Malcolm Collins: But you've also pointed out that because I've raised your status so much our relative status differences, like do genuinely require me stepping up more than I did in our early relationship.

Simone Collins: That's true. Yeah. The auntie has been. Has been upped,

Malcolm Collins: And you're like this is the way things are. Like, life isn't fair, right? Mm-hmm. And, and you're definitely holding up your end of the bargain. More like you being pregnant with kid number five while being sick, while handling all this, like, it's just so intense what you're doing.

You know, we had in, what was NHK, the Japanese Filmers here yesterday. I'm surprised nobody noticed in the comments that there were no, two

Simone Collins: people did. Two people noticed.

Malcolm Collins: In the, in the Antinatalism episode. Yeah. One of my [00:14:00] favorite episodes. People never watch our favorite episodes. I'm like, I'm like, I spend so much time.

I really, it

Simone Collins: had a lot of comments when I went in and checked in on that. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Men said, I love you an average of 42 days earlier than women, because they don't just say, I love you first. Damn. That's leaving somebody hanging right there 42 days earlier. That is not okay. That's like just manipulative in my perspective.

If you don't, if you're not interested in a long-term relationship, just be like, I don't feel that way about you don't like, they just end

Simone Collins: it because you're wasting their time. It's really cruel to waste someone's time like that. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Don't, don't, this is even worse. It appears that they know, they plan to say it eventually, but they just wanna establish their power in the relationship.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's, that's really uncool this female tendency to. Act cool. And by, by that I mean have like literally a, a sort of chili ice cream reaction to not be impressed by anything they do. And they're like, oh, I love this restaurant. Oh, you didn't actually get that good at reviews, whatever, right? Just what is that?

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right.

Simone Collins: It doesn't make you look good

Malcolm Collins: at all. No, I agree. [00:15:00] I agree. This whole like poo-pooing whatever, like, oh, not that great. Mm-hmm. What I've also just talked about, like, the reason why a lot of men get in bad situations within this current dating market is they have no idea what the average woman looks like.

They, they basically, like I have heard that you are mid from like our channel or like lower mm-hmm. And I'm like, you need to stop comparing my wife. To other well-known YouTubers, you watch and go to an airport,

Simone Collins: internet mid like an IRL, like higher because I'm not obese, but like we in, in an age of filters and cosmetic procedures.

And also I. In an age agent, which obviously like the most attractive people are between 21 and 23. I'm, I'm, I have to be. No,

Malcolm Collins: no, no. Yeah. But what I'm saying is it helps men to reset their actual expectations. Oh. You, I've seen some of our

Simone Collins: colleagues, like, how are you going to end up in a, well, I

Malcolm Collins: can't find a hot woman in the US who wants me, so I'm gonna go to like Latin America and look for a woman.

And I'm like, this isn't gonna work for you. Like, you, you, you, well, I mean, it's are way too high on attractiveness. We've

Simone Collins: been talking about that. Right? Like there, there are some people who are now [00:16:00] like. Some people's approach to modern dating is, okay, I'm just gonna be a passport, bro. I'm just gonna find my, my tie, or Eastern European.

Tra wife who's gonna be younger, who's gonna be very attractive, who yes, also is gonna be smart, but like she can

Malcolm Collins: be done. But like, keep in mind the effects that that's gonna have on like, you know, this

Simone Collins: I, you're not taking into account the hedonic treadmill as well, which we've seen play out in plenty of these types of relationships.

They're just normalizes

Malcolm Collins: your life in the US and just so like.

Simone Collins: I, I get that. Like this is, this is one approach. Okay, you can do this, and then you just drop her when she gets old. You could just Leo, Leo DiCaprio it. Right. Just keep going and just like strong prenup or like marry in a homestead state, like whatever it is that you need.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But these are also the types of people who are more likely to like poison you if they think you're gonna pull that off. Like, I mean, yeah. You've taken them from their support network. You've put them in an incredibly vulnerable position. Yeah. You've had their backs against the wall,

Simone Collins: Yeah, we're fortunate that the people we know who have done this on basis has not

Malcolm Collins: died.

Awkward being here. .

Speaker 5: What's wrong, [00:17:00] Carl?

Speaker 8: Well, for starters, she is barricading herself inside my house and every time I knock, she screams at me in this like language, it's like some demon yelling at me or something.

Malcolm Collins: But no, the point I was making about like, go to an airport and actually look around and discount anybody who is significantly younger than you in age, because they're just gonna look hotter no matter what. And then sort of try to build a normal, I might have an do that also,

Simone Collins: like I think, I don't, like do you want a child like you're, you're, you're, you're basically.

Marrying a child, meaning you also have to take care of it and deal with, you mean if you're marrying a younger

Malcolm Collins: person? Yeah,

Simone Collins: that's true. Yeah. Like when I, and I know like there are other, there are downsides too to marrying someone who's set in their ways, like waiting too long is also difficult because then they're gonna have, like, they're gonna be a lot less flexible and willing to grow with you.

And that also is a problem. But like this solution of just, oh, I'll marry a child, like. Okay, well then this is one reason why we didn't like, we, we thought for a while. 'cause a lot of our, our friends were like, oh, you should get [00:18:00] no pair. Like it's, it's a great, it's a great thing, you know, cultural exchange.

They watch your kids, young women are

Malcolm Collins: terrible these days.

Simone Collins: But then, yeah, but then like we have to like. Now we have, you know, not four children at home, but five. And we have to, you know, feed them and pay attention to them and, and help them through their homesickness and, you know, take them out on outings and like, no, you know, it's busy.

We want a partner, we want someone to help us, you know, and we wanna help them, but not. So

Malcolm Collins: when you're actually seeing this in the statistics here, because I think one of the things that people aren't thinking about when they're doing the password growth thing is you are very likely not gonna be able to have as in-depth into intellectual conversations with this individual as somebody who has a cultural similarities to you.

Simone Collins: Fair? Yeah. Even, even if it's just the cultural differences. So let's say that they're equally educated, they're equally likely, no

Malcolm Collins: language difference. Mm-hmm. Know anything. Yeah. Just due to cultural framing differences, you're gonna have a harder time. Yeah. And we see this in the data. 49% of men versus 20% of women claim their Repa romantic partner with their primary Confidant US study.

Mm-hmm. Wild. Right? 40% of men to 20% of women. Wow. So [00:19:00] 49%, sorry. Almost 50% of men considered their, their wives, their yikes. Or their partners, sorry, not even their wives. You are my primary confident. I, I think it's a big problem that women consider people other than the men their primary confident. I, I'd say that's a huge warning flag for a relationship.

If the woman considers anyone other than their husband to be their primary, I just don't

Simone Collins: really see it as a marriage if, if you're not actually integrating your life with someone intellectually. Yeah. I mean also professionally, I, I, I just, and, and, and professionally can mean. That maybe one person maintains the household and the family's finances and like, just like backend admin for the family business or for, you know, the partner who works.

Like, I could still, I still see that as a professional arrangement, but like separate jobs, separate careers, separate friends. Like this is. Yeah. What that is, just fill

Malcolm Collins: her out. If she is experiencing problems with the relationship and the first person she goes to isn't her partner, but somebody else,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That somebody else can often have a vested interest, especially if they're a PE female partner with, you know, the degree of intersexual competition to drive the relationship apart. And we repeatedly see this in [00:20:00] the, the women who do something ridiculous and then go to their like. Friend signal threat or whatever, and, and they're affirmed for doing the thing that anyone would know is ridiculous because the other women are just, you know, either they're just insane or they're trying to tear them down.

Simone Collins: Right? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And then men show stronger associations between relationship status and mental slash physical health outcomes. So it helps you more in mental and physical health.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, so what the leftists that I follow on YouTube would say is that that is because women take on. And uncompensated and un un unreturned, unrequited burden of providing mental, I think you support and physical care. I mean,

Malcolm Collins: even if we pretend like you do as much as like I do as much as you do, it's obviously not true.

Simone Collins: Well, when it comes to, when it comes to physical care, I 100% do more, but that's, that's because it's. Kind of what women specialize in.

So yeah, like, I'm making you your meals, I'm doing the laundry. I am, you know, doling out medicine when people are sick. And, but, and, and I think that's, it's, so it's, it's [00:21:00] to me obvious that men would be physically better off with women caring for them. But that's, that is another reason why women are like, okay, so now I'm not caring just for myself.

I'm caring for my, my partner and any kids that we have like. I mean, they'll happily take that on if it comes to it and they'll find it satisfying, you know, I mean, assuming it's a relationship.

Malcolm Collins: No, and I mean, I think it is a raw deal that women get even, even in Yeah. You know, fairly I mean, people might consider a relationship conservative progress.

We we're called like anti egalitarian all the time by leftist media, whatever. Even though we run our companies together, we do our podcast together, we, you know, do work together, whatever. Men are less likely to initiate breakups. Women initiate 70% of divorces. Women also initiate breakups more often in non-marital relationships.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. This

Malcolm Collins: is just mm-hmm. And,

Simone Collins: and men are more likely to get into a subsequent relationship more quickly.

Malcolm Collins: Uhhuh. Well, and here you see men suffer more from relationship dissolution. 40% of men versus 20% of women report frequent loneliness [00:22:00] during divorce year. Men's mortality risk increased by 27% after a spouse's death versus women's by 15% increase.

Well, and again,

Simone Collins: but also it is not just that women basically then the women, I think. Often re receive a little bit of a hedonic bump after ending a relationship because there are fewer. Logistical burden on their lives, but beyond that, they have better support networks just period.

Malcolm Collins: Right. If they're, if they're primary confidant, whether they're husband, then you immediately have somebody you can go to, right?

Yeah. A hundred percent.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: with 50% of men having their wife with their primary confident o obviously, or partners, their primary confident, that's, that's gonna be an issue.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I, I'd also note here that there's this perception that like men are this sort of the abusive gender in relationships and they don't value women as much, but here you're seeing this giant increased mortality risk in men you don't see in women after a divorce.

This giant increase in lonelier. Literally twice what women experience. And so I think what we're seeing there is that that's just a, a false narrative. And, and people keep pointing to this study that was withdrawn about men leaving their partners when they had a, a major injury or illness.

[00:23:00] Mm-hmm. And then the guy who released it withdrew it and said, I did the mass wrong. It's not, not accurate. So what we actually see here is we, there are so

Simone Collins: many high, it's weird. There are many high profile examples of famous men. Who like left their wife as she was going through cancer. Like one of them is Brian Johnson.

He was accused of that. And then there's some other guys who. Policy stuff. Criticized There was the, the

Malcolm Collins: Democratic Dean Howard Dean.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Howard Dean, that's right. Yeah. So what's up with that? There was a

Malcolm Collins: famous actor, the the director guy who divorced his wife via facts and then like married a, a name or something.

Oh no, a stepchild. I have to find out who that is.

So the Phil Collins one was the divorcing his wife via facts, although he denies that that's what's happened. And the marrying the stepchild. One was Woody Allen. , And they make it clear that she was only technically a stepchild and that, uh, Woody Allen had began a relationship with her mother, and this was the adopted daughter of that mother, although he never fully married the mother, [00:24:00] even though he dated her for over 10 years.

And then he started dating her adopted daughter when she hit. 20.

Malcolm Collins: But you know, no, I think that what this is, is all of those men are far leftists oh. And I think if you adapt to the urban monoculture as a man, you're gonna treat your wife significantly worse than you don from what I've seen.

Simone Collins: Why?

Malcolm Collins: I, I think because you don't really have a set of rules for how women are supposed to be treated and you don't have a true moral center.

Mm-hmm. So it's like, I wanna feel good, therefore we're gonna be polyamorous. I want feel good. Therefore, you know, this, there isn't really a, oh well, she'll be better off anyway there, there's always a way to justify your decisions within, in the urban monoculture. Oh yeah, yeah. Or like,

Simone Collins: yeah, we, we've never really been integrated anyway.

She doesn't depend on me, I guess. Yeah, there's more, maybe there's more separation as well. Like we were never commingled, we always had a prenup. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: 19% of men versus 11% of women report never having emotional support. So way more men than women, almost double. The rate of men have never gotten emotional support from their spouse.

Despite what the feminist will tell you, that's men were [00:25:00] six times more likely than widow women to begin new relationships after becoming widowed or divorce. So women were, sorry. Women were six, six times more likely. So it's not like a little bit more likely. It's six times more likely. In the paper they argued for this.

I don't really buy a lot of these arguments. Men are socialized to avoid showing vulnerability. Of course, they've gotta be like, they're socialized, and it's like, then why are the worse men, the democratic men, why are the worse men, the urban monoculture men, right? Like, why is it that the better husbands seem to come from these more traditionalist cultures?

You know, and the the answer is, is because this is just wrong. Right. Like showing vulnerability can often be used to manipulate other people. I mean, that's the beginning of emotional blackmail.

Simone Collins: Well, and I also think that 'cause I was looking at different argumentative styles between men and women.

And women are way more likely to use emotional appeals, but I think that's because it's, it's manipulative.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. This limits men's ability to seek, receive emotional support from friends and family. Consequently, men become more dependent on romantic partners for intimacy and emotional needs.

Women maintain broader [00:26:00] support networks beyond romantic relationships. I. I just disagree with this. This to me sounds more like the women having broader friendship networks seems to be a more modern thing. It doesn't appear intrinsic to women or anything like that. It doesn't appear downstream of vulnerability.

It appears to be a tactic that the Erwin Monoculture uses to pull people outta their families. Right. Because incredibly effective to create these all female social networks where people go for validation and that can enforce alternate cultural norms in the one the family is adopting.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Would you say you have more female friends or male friends?

Simone Collins: God, I don't know. I mean, how do we even define friends anymore? Male, probably in terms of people that we,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. I don't know.

Simone Collins: I love, I don't, I don't see gender, Malcolm

Malcolm Collins: people live different genders, like can't be friends. I love that there's this perception and I'm like, that is so not true for married people.

Like, after marriage, it becomes a lot easier to be close friends with somebody if, if I. Of you, [00:27:00] even if like one person is single. And, and I think that this can cause sometimes unnecessary friction where people have too much phobia around this,

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. Where they're like, you're not allowed to, or I'm really, and I think they need to be mutual

Malcolm Collins: friends.

Like, like for me, I actually feel safer with you having a majority of male friends than a majority of female friends. And people can be like, why would you Oh, because you

Simone Collins: think they'd like poison you against me? I might, I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking about the people that I chat with regularly, the most, like text with.

It's true. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Your long-term calls was like really childhood friends as more female, but like, but no, no,

Simone Collins: no. Even, even new friends, like who do I text regularly? I, I text Diana Fleischman about her book I text with the brilliant mother who I constantly talk about. And I, I text with. Like honestly, other people who are female know that I think about it, but like, they're the ones who chat more.

Malcolm Collins: Do they, do they ever try to drive wedges in your relationship or

Simone Collins: No? Never. No.

Malcolm Collins: That's why you need the female. Okay. The discussions, maybe it, 'cause they're

Simone Collins: all a little bit on the. Spectrum or like [00:28:00] different neural neur, but like, well,

Malcolm Collins: maybe your, your wife

Simone Collins: to be, our conversations are so tactical, it's like, here's this study, or here's this method, or here's this piece of information.

Malcolm Collins: So, so the answer is, is you need your wife to interact with women who have lots of kids and are in healthy relationships.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yes. All of these women are, if not married, no, they're all married. Okay. Huh.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Interesting.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Well now we're gonna get to the big mystery that I asked you at the beginning.

This one is called Yes. Oh my goodness. Key points from beauty premium for social scientists, but unat attractiveness, premium for natural scientists. This in the opposite of what you think and so I was wrong here. How attractiveness affects social scientists value in public speaking while having the opposite effect.

On social versus natural scientists. Oh my god. Social scientists benefit from being attractive while natural scientists actually benefit from being less attractive. Sample methodology, 739 [00:29:00] public speakers from eight North American speaker agencies 217, full-time academics, 551 part-time academics, 366.

Non-academics facial features on a scale of one to 10, using geometric facial analysis, speaking fees used as a proxy for quote unquote market value.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I love that they're using market value as a term in this. This, I love it.

Simone Collins: Yes. This is a wonderful study of applause to it. Whoever did this. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Four, four key findings with supporting statistics.

Facial attractiveness has no correlation with academic achievement. So this is the first one here, which is really interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Generally, historically, what, what, what they found is that people who are more attractive are typically more competent. Yeah. It might just be that there's an alternate pressure to like, leave academia if you're more attractive and go into another field.

Simone Collins: Fair.

Malcolm Collins: Because attractiveness is correlated with intelligence. Overall. Yeah, but also

Simone Collins: attractiveness is indeed correlated with things like higher salaries and stuff, so, yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like I, I might be an academic if I was less attractive, for example. Mm-hmm. I was definitely going down that path.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Attractiveness affects external visibility only where physical appearance matters. Significantly [00:30:00] positive effects on TED Talk invitations Google webpage mentions NY time bestseller list. And, and so the Google webpage mentions 20% per attractiveness point and on the NY time bestseller list, plus one week per attractiveness point.

That is wild. No significant effects on book publications or book awards where appearance is less visible. Opposite beauty premiums by field in speaking fees. Natural scientists, unat attractiveness premium significant negative effect with a p value of 0.011 a 19% increase in speaker fees. So oh no, for each one point decrease in attractiveness.

Simone Collins: Whoa, what?

Malcolm Collins: So

Simone Collins: it's huge. So the more misshapen you are, the more cachet you have as a potential speaker. They're like, oh yeah, they look really messed up. Let's have them talk to us about. Bio biology natural like geology. What, what are we talking Natural, I mean, well

Malcolm Collins: think about like Stephen Hawking [00:31:00] or like a, you know, Einstein or something.

Like, the archetype we have is somebody who is not traditionally attractive, even though Stephen Hawking was originally quite attractive.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The, and, well, this, this, what's so weird to me is like, I remember in the halls of academia, like when we were talking with or just hanging out with people at different departments like.

I remember the geology people very attractive, but like party animals, like very rugged party animals, like get dehydrated digging all day and then just get, and same with archeologists and then. I don't know. You said like neuroscientists were often just like, yeah, every neuroscientists

Malcolm Collins: being fairly attractive, but maybe that's wrong from this.

Now if we go further here social scientist, beauty premium in business fields, you have a really big one that makes sense. Yeah. In effect 0.034. Well, in the other social scientists, you have a, a highly but not enormous of 0.364.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: [00:32:00] So. I think about

Simone Collins: Diana Fleischman, you know, she is very attractive and she's in the social sciences, right?

And like she is a more public facing kind of person.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, sorry, I, I gave the wrong number there. It was B 0.204, P 0.0 3, 4 4 business fields. And then for others, plaintiffs it was B 0.364, and p less than 0.001. So this would mean it's. I guess bigger in the other social sciences I spoke wrong. Non-academic speakers with science backgrounds show the same pattern.

Natural science background unat attractiveness, premium social science, business beauty, premium social science, others beauty, premium key insight, stereotypes, drive market value. These findings suggest that public stereotypes about nerdy or geeky natural scientists create a market where less attractive natural scientists are perceived as more credible, competent.

Well, social scientists benefit from conventional beauty premiums. Yeah. Appearance versus substance. Despite no correlation between attractiveness and actual academic performance there is, by the way, there just isn't within academia. The, the speaking market rewards different appearances for [00:33:00] different fields indicating that public perception, not academic quality, drives these premiums.

The ugly Einstein effect. The paper references the cultural Cartesian dualism where people believe you can either be physically attractive or intellectually brilliant, but not both. Particularly for natural scientists. And this is a phenomenon that you and I have taken advantage of before. Remember the study on glasses and hair links gonna go into that?

Simone Collins: Yeah. That in general, people with shorter hair. And people who are wearing glasses are seen as less attractive, less approachable, but more intelligent and more competent, and both men and women one without glasses, but two with like long hair that's down are seen as more attractive and more approachable.

So I guess like the Jesus hair or the Fabio look for are, are but they're also seen as less, less intelligent and competent. It's funny,

Malcolm Collins: I do de, I definitely don't see men with long hair as approachable. I always think that they, they're gonna be a creep.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But then again, I, you know, you have the Fabio [00:34:00] thing.

Like, how did that happen? Because I, I never thought that, well, I

Malcolm Collins: think that this might be urban monoculture brain people because it's being collected from students and stuff. Maybe I

Simone Collins: see. I just perceived it as this subconscious association with feminine traits and beauty, regardless of the person's actual gender.

It's like, oh, if it looks more like a woman. It's gonna be prettier and dumber. And if it looks more like a man, I don't this, it's gonna be smarter,

Malcolm Collins: I think. I think it's about urban monocultural, social norms, the long hair maybe. Maybe. And the glasses I don't think are about urban monocultural norms. I think everybody generally assumes people with glasses are competent, but less approachable.

I mean, you don't really need your glasses that much, but you still wear them based on this. No, I don't. When you first read these studies, I do think that people, men and and, and women view women with shorter hair as more competent which is why you cut your hair after that study. You used to have super long hair, like hippie hair.

And then after Brian Johnson,

Simone Collins: Brian Kaplan,

Malcolm Collins: Brian Kaplan came on our podcast and was like, Hey, for your audience, you should probably grow out your hair. And now you, you've grown out [00:35:00] your hair.

Simone Collins: No regrets.

Malcolm Collins: You tell me how much you hated your longer hair. When you had short hair, because it was so easy to maintain.

Oh. How did that change? Hair

Simone Collins: is so easy to maintain. It is, it is.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, do you wanna go to wigs?

Simone Collins: Ew, no. Yeah, that's, I mean, not, not ew to wigs, whatever you do, but like, I don't, I don't wanna do wigs. And I, I'm, I'm fine with my hair the way it is.

Malcolm Collins: I love eating Dec Simone. I am very excited for dinner tonight.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm gonna make you your

Malcolm Collins: desk door. So we're doing mac and cheese.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Delivered to your room, right?

Malcolm Collins: I mean,

Simone Collins: don't come down rest. Okay. I've got the kids. It's fine. I'll get the

Malcolm Collins: kids at eight. Okay.

Simone Collins: That'd be great. That'd be wonderful.

Malcolm Collins: And I'll just lay down and, and go to sleep. And yeah, extra cheese.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, if you'