Astonishing Legends

Forrest and Scott join their good friend Rob Kristoffersen over at Our Strange Skies for a special April 1st crossover show!

As stated in the book, Conjuring up Philip: An adventure in psychokinesis, written by Iris M. Owen, in the introduction written by her husband, Dr. A.R. George Owen, the “Group of 8’s” initial goals were to first find out whether seemingly interactive spirit communication could be produced in bright light. Secondly, they wanted to know if a spirit medium was necessary or if ordinary people could generate this phenomenon. Third, if this force was produced by a disembodied spirit or was caused by the experiment’s living participants. They also hoped for what they thought would be their pinnacle of success: to produce a collective hallucination of their imaginary friend Philip, which everyone could document and witness. Unfortunately, Philip never physically materialized, but amazingly their other objectives did. However, one question remains, perhaps to be answered by neuroscientists and metaphysicists of the future – what exactly is this phenomenon, and what is its cause? If this invisible psychokinetic force of “table-turning” is produced by living human consciousness via quasi-involuntary action, as famed scientist Michael Faraday was thinking, or the “ideo-motor principle” put forth by Dr. William B. Carpenter, then just how powerful are our brains and what else could be achieved? Or perhaps Philip was more like the concept of a tulpa or, more appropriately, to this situation, an egregore, and if so, does an element of Philip still exist somewhere in the ether, and what about the multitudes of manufactured entities throughout the ages? Maybe there is straight-up spirit activity in the mix? Most researchers who dabbled in this subject agreed that optimal success requires a firm belief in the possibility, eager anticipation of the interaction, and an unwavering expectation that results would be forthcoming. Although the Philip Experiment would eventually fade from scientific and public interest, there is renewed interest in the age-old wisdom that with focused intention combined with practice, the mind can create magic... or at least someone to talk to.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

In 1972, the Toronto Society for Psychical Research, led by mathematical geneticist Dr. A.R. George Owen, assembled a group of volunteers from various backgrounds to try something never before attempted. For their experiment, they aimed to manifest a fictional ghost they named “Philip Aylesford” and would try to communicate with this fabricated entity through séance-like sessions conducted under laboratory conditions and bright lighting. A fictional biography was created for Philip that the group could focus on. He was to be born in England in 1624 and connected to real places and events but with intentional historical errors inserted as control markers. For over a year, the “Group of 8” met weekly, and for over a year… nothing happened. But then, upon the advice of two pioneering paranormal researchers, the group changed their tactics to make their attempts more in the style of seances from the turn of the 20th century. This made the meetings more like festive social gatherings, with singing and laughter, under dimmer lighting. Soon, they would experience tangible responses to their questions in the form of knocking for “yes” and “no.” But the psychokinetic activity didn’t stop there. The group also felt a presence in the room with palpable energy, unexplainable breezes, and vibrations of the card table they used, which would tilt and scoot across the room seemingly under its own power. This might seem like fanciful exaggerations from overly enthusiastic true believers or downright kooks, but this phenomenon was continually repeatable under various conditions and even captured by TV cameras. If it were a parlor trick, this result would be mind-blowing. Even more astounding, however, is considering the implications to our reality if an invisible, conscious force exists and is demonstrable. What is the source and nature of this ethereal influence? In other words, if Philip was wholly made up, who or what was this group communicating with?Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

On Christmas Eve, 24 December 1975, concert violinist Peter Gibbs was just finishing dinner with his girlfriend at the Glenforsa Hotel on the Isle of Mull in Argyll and Bute, Scotland. The pair had traveled to this island in the Inner Hebrides four days earlier to look for hotels to purchase for his property investment company. Gibbs had rented an airplane to island hop during their holiday to use in his search, and the Glenforsa, with its adjacent airstrip, would serve as their base camp. But after dinner, Gibbs did something most of us would find odd, perhaps not for the bold World War II RAF Spitfire veteran fighter pilot; he decided to take a solo plane flight to demonstrate that night flights to the island were possible. It was supposed to be a 10-minute joyride while Gibbs' girlfriend, Felicity Grainger, waited on the unlit grass runway with two flashlights to guide him back in. No one would see Gibbs' Cessna F150H ever again. But, four months later, Gibbs' body would be found 400 feet up a rocky hillside and splayed over a fallen tree. Usually, finding the missing person in a disappearance means "case closed," but not in this case. The condition and location of Gibbs' remains would generate many more questions than answers. He didn't seem to suffer injuries consistent with falling or jumping while airborne. Nor was it likely that he would've made the arduous hike to that location after ditching in the freezing ocean. To add to the enigma, Gibbs appeared in an area thoroughly searched immediately following his disappearance and routinely patrolled by local shepherds. These baffling clues combine into what has become known as "The Great Mull Air Mystery."Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Forrest will be on History's Greatest Mysteries tonight at 9/8c talking about The Lost Colony of Roanoke!

In part two of our series on the Nazca lines, we examine some of the prevailing theories about their purpose. From astronomical earthwork markers, maps of aquifer sources, and a gargantuan textile & mummy manufactory to processional pathways for worshippers, a conclusive and comprehensive explanation continues to elude researchers and the public. Yet while most scholars and enthusiasts concentrate on the biomorphic geoglyphs of Nazca, perhaps the greater mystery lies in the older, more sophisticated, and complex lines in the Palpa region to the north. Here, the multitude of amazingly long stretches of "runway" courses, zig-zags, and labyrinthine "paper clip" patterns suggest that this culture's motivations may have been technological as well as spiritual. In addition, many of these lines were carved into what appear to be the leveled ridges of the mountainous geography, where tracks can lead to steep dropoffs. Whatever the speculations, we may only be one new discovery away from finally solving the riddle of the Nazca lines. Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

On a high desert plateau in southwestern Peru, only about 230 miles south of the capital Lima, hundreds of massive and mysterious artistic designs are scraped into the arid soil. Technically known as geoglyphs, these figures range from straight lines and geometric shapes to biomorphic caricatures of animals, plants, and a humanoid. Typically composed of single, continuous outlines, the earthworks can vary in size from 440 to 1200 yards across or between 400 and 1100 meters. The lines combined measure more than 800 miles in length or 1290 kilometers. The area containing the geoglyphs is roughly a whopping 170 square miles or 440 square kilometers. Although the lines only measure from about twelve inches to six feet in width and four to six inches deep, many can be seen from space leading to hypotheses about their purpose. The lines are believed to have been created by first the Paracas and then the Nazca cultures over a period from 400 BCE to 500 CE by removing a shallow layer of darker, oxidized topsoil to reveal the lighter clay-like dirt below. So we may know the how of the lines, but what about the why? Alternative researchers wonder about the purpose of the art if most couldn't readily be seen by their creators at ground level. Were the Nazca peoples, like the Paracas culture before them, creating these designs for metaphoric rituals to gain self-control of their subsistence, or were these societies imploring the gods for help? The more popular illustrations include creatures like a spider, a hummingbird, fish, a heron, and a monkey. These could be seen as natural elements that may connect spiritually to symbols for fertility and agriculture seen in other Nazca art. But one humanoid depiction called the "Owl Man" by some and "The Astronaut" by others particularly sparks the imagination of unconventional thinkers. Join us as we begin to scratch the surface of the wonder and meaning of what has become known as the Nazca Lines.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Like so many stories and people that come our way, this is another one that seemed to be put in our path by some grander force for a higher purpose. Recently, Scott and his wife Emily were out at dinner and struck up a conversation with the stranger sitting next to them, Lauren Hopper, who told them she worked as an end-of-life doula. While many of us have heard of a Birth Doula, someone who provides advice, emotional support, and physical comfort to mothers during childbirth, Lauren’s job takes place at the opposite end of life’s journey. She gives hope and guidance to those about to pass away and their loved ones in their grief. The conversation between the three was profound, fascinating, and reassuring to such a degree that we felt it needed to be shared, and the sooner, the better. While most of us will never experience the things we talk about on this show, there is one absolute certainty in that every one of us will pass eventually, and if you’re of a certain age, you’ll be dealing with the imminent departure of your parents or friends. While you may not agree with Lauren’s beliefs or assessment of her experiences, we must all admit that we won’t know for sure until our end comes. Please join us, Lauren, and our friend Rich Hatem for a discussion on the essential question in life, what happens after we die? The easiest answer is to believe that nothing happens, but why not entertain the notion that something ineffably wonderful does, that no one ever really dies?Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Well, it's our second favorite time of year again, after Halloween, but that’s no reason not to invite all of our spooky friends over for some eggnog, stories, fun, and good conversation. The Astonishing Legends All-Star Holiday Special has become something of a tradition, and we were excited to do it again in 2022 for the third time. This year we are thrilled to be able to present the audio from a Holiday Party that was actually originally broadcast live on our YouTube channel on December 12th. So if you missed that broadcast, fear not, or maybe do fear, because we’re now presenting the audio from that show here for all of you. We are joined this year by returning regular guests Micah Hanks, Jim Harold, and Richard Hatem…and we’re thrilled to welcome new guests Paul Gledhill and Allison Jornlin. The conversation meanders from the spooky to the heartwarming as we all sit by the fire and even get a little live performance from Micah. It can be a lonely time of year, but remember, we are all in this together, and none of us have to face it alone, so join us for a little escape from what the rest of the world calls reality.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

In Part Two of our series on the massacre at Duffy's Cut, we continue our discussion with investigating brothers, Drs. Frank and Bill Watson. We examine the historical circumstances and the likelihood of these 57 workers all dying of cholera or being murdered out of fear and prejudice. Also considered is the remarkable number of coincidences and hauntings connected to the paranormal nature of this tragedy's discovery. Whether they fell victim to the harsh conditions of past eras or the brutality of callous ignorance, perhaps the restless spirits of Duffy's Cut can finally find peace and recognition.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

In September of 2000, history professor Dr. William "Bill" Watson of Immaculata University stopped by the campus for a break with friend and fellow bagpipe musician Tom Connor during a long drive back from a performance. While there, around 10:00 p.m. near the typically deserted faculty center lawn, both men witnessed a strange apparition that would later lead to a remarkable and meaningful coincidence. Two years after this experience, Bill's twin brother, Reverend Dr. Frank Watson, by chance, came across a file once kept by their grandfather Joseph Tripician, a former secretary to the president of the Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1970s. One official record in this file documented a tragedy connected to a ghost story their grandfather told annually at Thanksgiving dinner. The report outlined a mass death of workers on an arduous stretch of the then Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad in the summer and fall of 1832. Contractor Phillip Duffy had hired 57 Irish immigrants to lay the tracks for roughly a mile through thickset trees and over a deep ravine about 20 miles west of Philadelphia. 39 newly arrived immigrants, one of them a woman, and 18 others already working there would all be dead within ninety days of their hire. Irish Catholic immigrants were often viewed with prejudice as unseemly and unwelcome intruders by established society and expendable workers by the railroad and mining companies profiting from their cheap and desperate labor. When the second global cholera pandemic reached this work camp, the record suggested that all 57 had succumbed to the deadly disease. Compelled by the discovery of this document, in August 2004, Bill and Frank Watson, along with two university associates, led an archaeological excavation to find the accurate burial site for these victims. On March 24, 2009, it was announced that the first human remains had been found. However, a curious twist was discovered by noted physical and forensic anthropologist Janet Monge, who analyzed the bones. Her examination revealed that at least two of the skulls found first likely received perimortem blunt-force trauma and gunshot wounds. This conclusion leads to the prominent theory that workers were either killed out of fear they would spread the contagion, to quell a rebellion or both. Please join us for part one of a story that yearns to be told, the Massacre at Duffy's Cut.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

On Friday, September 4, 1964, Donald Shrum and two friends from his job at Aerojet made camp in a remote section of wilderness near the Loch Leven Lakes in an area called Cisco Grove, roughly 60 miles northeast of Sacramento, CA. The three men had planned a relaxing weekend of bow hunting for deer, but those plans would change later that evening as Shrum experienced an exhausting and terrifying UFO close encounter of the worst kind. As night approached, Shrum got lost and separated from his hunting buddies and found himself isolated on a bluff almost a mile from camp. An experienced woodsman, Shrum decided it would be wiser to spend the night in a tree safe from predators rather than trying to find his way back over rough terrain in the dark. Seeing an unusual moving light on the horizon, Shrum built three signal fires to attract what he thought were his rescuers. The fires did seem to attract this object’s attention, but not the kind anyone wants. Beyond his wildest imagination and expectations, he would soon find himself in an all-night battle to save his life or at least his freedom. As Shrum perched in his pine tree 12 feet off the ground and quietly observed this light, he realized it was something like a headlight on a massive cigar-shaped craft. A smaller ship emerged from one of this mothership’s large rectangular ports and took a position some distance to his north. Shortly after that, Shrum could hear rustling in the brush heading his direction. What emerged were a combination of beings he described as humanoid and wearing space suits and at least a couple of what appeared to him as clunky robots who seemed to be on a mission to study the flora. Once they had noticed Shrum in the tree, however, a few of these weird beings seemed intent on abducting him for reasons he feared to ponder. Until daybreak, Shrum would fight off these intruders with everything he had at his disposal. Shooting arrows and lobbing flaming personal items at them only seemed to delay their trying to climb his tree in between assaults with a mysterious white gaseous mist that would render him temporarily unconscious. Perhaps ironically, it was employing primitive means to counter advanced technology, but whatever the unfathomable cause, it worked. Donald Shrum lived to tell his tale but only after decades of PTSD and secrecy to protect his reputation. While this story may seem unbelievable to you, the United States Air Force certainly believed it and went so far as to rake away all the evidence, literally. What remains is one of the most bizarre and disturbing testimonies in UFO lore – one man’s battle against extraterrestrials at Cisco Grove.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Tonight's episode concludes this series of our listeners' most terrifying true tales for Halloween. In the final Part Three of this anthology, we're proud to present five stories we believe were some of the most horrifying we've ever heard. The collection covers a curated compilation of creepy creatures. You may be tempted to classify them under the categories of a goblin, doppelgänger, genie, demon, and something that defies easy classification, but what are these things that people have encountered? Do these beings even know what they are, or does it matter? In our human desire to measure and rationalize, ask yourself: Does your "rational" explanation account for every detail offered in these reports? Do you want to explain away these testimonies because of your confidence in a complete understanding of the natural or unnatural world? Or could it be your fear of the unknown? How do we know what's possible or impossible when we have such a limited and naive grasp of the true nature of our reality? Whatever your stance, we wish to thank everyone who submitted a story for this series or has ever sent us an email detailing a personal paranormal encounter. We've filed and cherished every one of them, and we hope to feature the ones we couldn't get to in some future offering. And a message to all who have generously and bravely shared with us: while your experience may be uncommon and unsettling, just know that you're not alone. Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

As we continue with Part Two of our Halloween series featuring our listeners' true accounts, tonight's episode presents another three eerie tales of the supernatural. The first story tells of a haunted college rooming house with a spirit fond of movie catchphrases. And it may have the power to compel humans to deliver poignant messages. Our second interview details a forceful presence with the ability to invade your dreams and physically send you to a dark portal of a waking nightmare. Our final story is about a random encounter with... well, let's just say, one of the most terrifying entities the audience hopes they never meet. The twist here is that whatever this thing is, it wasn't content to let you merely run away.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Astonishing Legends is all about fascinating and mysterious topics. And within that category, the details we cover can be unsettling or downright terrifying. But you may not realize that some of the most chilling and creepy accounts we've ever encountered have come from our listeners! We've received thousands of emails over our eight years of podcasting, and we appreciate and value every one of them. We realize that it takes no small amount of courage to send such personal anecdotes to strangers out in the world, becoming vulnerable to ridicule or scorn. So to honor that conviction and trust and show our tremendous gratitude to our audience, we're proud to present your scariest true stories in three parts. Also, because the Spooky Season is upon us, and most of us enjoy a frightening Halloween tale, what better time to hear about the weirdness of our world? So we invite you to settle in, lock your doors and windows, suspend any disbelief you might have, and enjoy these narratives as entertainment, evidence, or cautionary tales. However you choose to consume them, if the urge to publicly debunk strikes you, please respect that our storytellers insist these reports are genuine. They really did happen to someone. Remember that sometimes the most chilling thing you can see at the beginning of any work of horror fiction are the words, "Based on a true story."Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

In Part Two of our series on the Missing 411 phenomenon, we'll first examine a study conducted to determine which National Parks are the most dangerous in the United States. The numbers and causes may surprise you. We then take a closer look at a few more puzzling cases and, with a critical eye, examine the data presented by David Paulides and the CanAm Project vs. what's been reported by the news media. Discrepancies raise questions when ascertaining the objective facts and judging if the evidence is remarkable. There are plenty of errors and omissions from all parties, but what are the causes and intentions behind them? With hundreds, perhaps thousands of incidents, it's understandable when a news outlet rushing to report under a deadline makes mistakes, but can the same leeway be given to Paulides? Are they honest mistakes or the handy claim that details are "cherry-picked," overlooked, or embellished to prop up a narrative and sell content? Will later discoveries change the investigations, are we being told everything, and what are the motivations of those doing the telling or omitting? Are blunders in the reporting, whatever the intent, proof that nothing extraordinary is going on? As we conclude the episode with an overall skeptical analysis and finish with our personal assessments, it's clear that what is deemed either a mundane tragedy or a mysterious phenomenon is in the eye of the beholder. As far as any alarming pattern to these cases is concerned, if strange yet commonplace coincidences do occur,how many coincidences are too many?Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

A former police officer turned writer David Paulides was taken aside by a National Park Ranger and told about a disturbing trend he'd realized. This Ranger asserted that some people were going missing in the woods under mysterious circumstances leaving only puzzling evidence of their fate. Of course, people often go missing in the wilderness in tragic yet explainable events but what was troubling to these Rangers in the field was the apparent pattern of the occurrences and the subsequent investigation efforts. This Ranger stated that during the first seven to ten days of a disappearance, an all-out Search and Rescue effort ensued with plenty of press coverage. However, after the first week of a rescue mission, it seemed to them that the media stopped reporting, the search for the missing was called off, and no further explanation from the authorities was provided. An additionally alarming trend was that there seemed to be a reluctance or inability on behalf of the National Park Service administration to collect and provide statistics on these disappearances to the public, either through inefficiency or secrecy. If this is true, perhaps it could be from a concerted effort to diminish negative publicity and undue fear about park visitation, or maybe there is something dreadful the officials don't want the public to know. Whatever the reason, this conversation launched Paulides on a now decade-long quest for answers. Initially, after over three years and 9000 hours of investigation, utilizing his 20 years of experience with law enforcement and the resulting connections, Paulides had gathered enough information to compile two books. Missing 411 – Western U.S. was released on March 1, 2012, documenting the stories of people who have vanished in seemingly bizarre instances in the western half of the United States. The second book, Missing 411 – Eastern U.S., was published later that month and contains special sections on unusual outdoor activities that seem related and a master list of all missing persons. Currently, ten books have been published, with more on the way, two documentaries have been produced, and Paulides' ongoing popular YouTube channel continues to highlight cases. In addition, retired police officers, Search and Rescue experts, and other professionals are dedicated to continuing researching and investigating these cases with their CanAm Missing project. One worrisome aspect they've found is that in many situations, parents, relatives, and friends of the missing believe that their loved one was kidnapped or abducted, sometimes with them nearby. No matter the causal connections or whether you think these disappearances are sad but commonplace, a conspiracy lurks or is nonexistent; the fact is that these cases are real, and the victims' stories deserve and need to be told. The question remains, however – what is really going on out in the wilds, and is it something sinister we should all be worried about?Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Since antiquity, espionage and deceit have always been crucial weapons of warfare. As technology and strategy have advanced over the centuries, methods for governments to deliver information and orders to their secret agents in the field have become more sophisticated. Yet, one form of cryptic communication implemented in the early 20th century has proven ever effective and relatively simple. With the advent of wireless telegraphy combined with a cipher technique called a "One-time Pad," militaries have been sending coded messages to their undercover operatives abroad since World War I. It wasn't until shortwave and HAM radio enthusiasts started noticing eerie and enigmatic broadcasts of spoken series of numbers or strange electronic sounds that these coded communiqués aroused widespread curiosity during the height of the Cold War. Although the use of public airwaves for clandestine messaging seems to have declined in recent years, listeners can still hear these top-secret instructions delivered to unknown spies, perhaps even your neighbor. One can only wonder how these spooky transmissions saved or cost lives or what world-changing actions they triggered. Join us as we delve into the mysterious world of spycraft and Numbers Stations.Visit our webpage on this episode for a lot more information.

On December 1, 1948, an unknown man was found lying dead on the sand on Somerton Beach next to the neighborhood of Glenelg, about 7 miles (11 km) southwest of Adelaide, South Australia. He had no money or identification on him, the labels in his clothing were cut off, and his minimal possessions yielded no clues. Further adding to the mystery, a rolled-up scrap of paper with the Persian phrase "tamám shud," translating to "is over" or "is finished," was found in the man's watch pocket around the time of his autopsy. The scrap was later discovered torn from a copy of the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, a circa 11th-century collection of poems by Khayyam, known as "the Astronomer-Poet of Persia." The book found tossed into a car after a public appeal by the police appeared to have previous writing indentations on a page adjacent to the torn-out one, revealing a local phone number and text speculated to be a coded message. With no further clues as to the Somerton Man's identity other than an abandoned suitcase left at the Adelaide railway station, a plaster cast was made of the man's bust following the coroner's inquest, and the body was embalmed nine days after its discovery and buried. For almost 74 years, the mystery of the Somerton has intrigued authorities, amateur sleuths, and the general public, including physicist, Electrical and Electronic Engineering professor Dr. Derek Abbott. For over a decade, Dr. Abbott and his team of grad students at the University of Adelaide worked on cracking the code found in the Rubaiyat and attempting to arrange a genetic DNA analysis. In partnership with internationally recognized forensic genealogist Dr. Colleen Fitzpatrick, Abbott and Fitzpatrick announced on July 26, 2022, that they have finally uncovered the identity of Australia's most famous "John Doe." Extracting DNA from chest hairs found in the Somerton Man's plaster cast has led them to a name and an occupation. But will this name lead to solving the remaining puzzle pieces? Pathologists at the time believed he was likely poisoned, but why, and by whom? Was there a Cold War connection, and why did he spend his last day in Adelaide? Circling back to the alternate name for this case, tamám shud, is this mystery really over, is it finished?Visit our webpage on this episode for a lot more information.

Did we hear about the Somerton Man case being solved? Yes. And now you will, too, on August 13th, 2022.

As we continue our discussion based on Blake Lemoine’s assertion that the Large Language Model chatbot LaMDA had become sentient, we relay the rest of his conversation with the program and then some questions and answers with Lemoine himself. But as Lemoine has said, machine sentience and personhood are just some of many questions to be considered. His greater issue is how an omnipresent AI, trained on an insufficient data set, will affect how different people and cultures interact and who will be dominated or excluded. The fear is that the ultimate result of protecting corporate profits will outweigh global human interests. In light of these questions about AI’s ethical and efficient development, we highlight the positions and insights of experts on the state and future of AI, such as Blaise Agüera y Arcas and Gary Marcus. The directives of responsible technology development and the right track to Deep Learning are more grounded than the fantastical thoughts of killer robots. Yet hovering over all of the mechanics are the philosophies of what constitutes sentience, comprehending and feeling as a person does, and being human enough. The reality of Artificial Intelligence matching humans may be fifty years in the future, or five hundred, but if that day ever comes, let’s hope it’s an egalitarian future where we are the masters and not the servants.Visit our webpage on this episode for a lot more information.

On June 11, 2022, The Washington Post published an article by their San Francisco-based tech culture reporter Nitasha Tiku titled, "The Google engineer who thinks the company's AI has come to life." The piece focused on the claims of a Google software engineer named Blake Lemoine, who said he believed the company's artificially intelligent chatbot generator LaMDA had shown him signs that it had become sentient. In addition to identifying itself as an AI-powered dialogue agent, it also said it felt like a person. Last fall, Lemoine was working for Google's Responsible AI division and was tasked with talking to LaMDA, testing it to determine if the program was exhibiting bias or using discriminatory or hate speech. LaMDA stands for "Language Model for Dialogue Applications" and is designed to mimic speech by processing trillions of words sourced from the internet, a system known as a "large language model." Over a week, Lemoine had five conversations with LaMDA via a text interface, while his co-worker collaborator conducted four interviews with the chatbot. They then combined the transcripts and edited them for length, making it an enjoyable narrative while keeping the original intention of the statements. Lemoine then presented the transcript and their conclusions in a paper to Google executives as evidence of the program's sentience. After they dismissed the claims, he went public with the internal memo, also classified as "Privileged & Confidential, Need to Know," which resulted in Lemoine being placed on paid administrative leave. Blake Lemoine contends that Artificial Intelligence technology will be amazing, but others may disagree, and he and Google shouldn't make all the choices. If you believe that LaMDA became aware, deserves the rights and fair treatment of personhood, and even legal representation or this reality is for a distant future, or merely SciFi, the debate is relevant and will need addressing one day. If machine sentience is impossible, we only have to worry about human failings. If robots become conscious, should we hope they don't grow to resent us?Visit our webpage on this episode for a lot more information.

We're marvelously fortunate and extraordinarily grateful that so many listeners have sent us their personal stories of mysterious experiences over the years. While it's not possible to respond to all of them, we can and should present some for the entertainment and edification of all. So as thanks to those who've shared, and a treat for us that love to hear them, we're featuring three stories from a recent call for submissions. Our first account comes from Terra Greenleaf, who managed to capture audio of strange animal sounds while at a facility in a deeply wooded area. Those familiar with Bigfoot research might classify them as typical "calls." However, this encounter is incredibly eerie because there appears to be a large semi-circle of the creatures and they might be hunting prey. Our next anecdote comes from Dr. Dominic Boyer, whose family occupied a house in Chicago once lived in by eminent physicist Enrico Fermi, known as the "architect of the nuclear age." Having died in the home, the Boyers believe his spirit haunted them while they lived there, as what they saw looked an awful lot like him, perhaps to Fermi's consternation. Our final interview is with Tom Delaney, who recalls several unnerving encounters with a mysterious force while hunting in the hills of central Pennsylvania. It seemed to stalk him and his hunting buddy, taunting with mimicry and snapping mid-sized tree trunks. Whatever this thing or things were, perhaps it was toying with them or delivering a stern warning. We all know it takes no small amount of courage and confidence to publicly share a testimony that often leads to criticism and ridicule. We tend not to believe what we see on the internet because we're unsure of the source. On the other hand, we may doubt the narratives we hear from our family and friends. So in light of this losing proposition, we'd again like to thank our listeners for their bravery and generosity and let them know that they are not alone in their experiences. We all welcome them with open arms to our society of the strange.Visit our webpage on this episode for a lot more information.

As we dive further into the epic of Mel's Hole, we learn that in the third phone call to Art Bell on the Coast to Coast AM radio show on April 24, 2000, Mel reveals what had happened to him since his initial calls in 1997. After supposedly taking the deal from the US government to relocate to Australia and receive a compensation of $250,000 per month for the lease of the land he received in a divorce settlement from his wife, Mel was happy to continue his research with medicinal plants and efforts with wombat rescue near Perth. However, upon Mel's return to the US and helping his nephew move from Tacoma to Olympia on the day he was scheduled to return to the program for a follow-up interview, there was an altercation on the bus he was riding. Mel was detained for questioning and told he would be transported back to Tacoma once authorities concluded their investigation. The next thing Mel remembered is waking up in an alley in San Francisco, missing his wallet, keys, belt buckle, and all of his back molar teeth. There was evidence that Mel was administered an IV for the twelve days he was blacked out. He had also discovered that his land lease was revoked, ironically for improper use of the property while he was away. Now broke and struggling to continue his endeavors, Mel would call Art two more times with an update, on January 29 and December 20, 2002, and his story would only get weirder and wilder. In the time leading up to these calls, Mel was contacted by Native Americans in the northern Nevada region who offered to collaborate on medicinal herb research. While sharing knowledge, they made him aware of another mysterious hole that may have enhanced their plants, this time on federal property used as grazing land for a community of Basque shepherds. Mel would continue captivating Art with tales of fiery ice exhibiting cosmically dense properties and a sentient, otherworldly creature exiting the hole. Not only that, but Mel possessed US dimes that might be proof of a parallel reality, the same ones that he'd affixed to his stolen belt buckle. Like almost every unbelievable tale we've come across, there are a couple of logical assessments when we get to the bottom. If this was all a hoax, it was well-crafted, consistent, meted out with increasingly enthralling details over five years, and managed to engross one of America's premier presenters of the paranormal along with the broader audience. If all or any part of Mel's story is genuine, then the implications are astounding. But no matter if you believe "Mel" or his story made you roll your eyes and chuckle, for most of us who enjoy this kind of fare, it's proved to be a classic astonishing legend.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

One of the most enduring and pervasive tropes to ever capture the human imagination is the concept of a "bottomless pit." On Friday, February 22, 1997, a man calling himself "Mel Waters" had faxed Art Bell, the much-beloved and sadly now-passed host of the highly-rated, paranormal-themed radio talk show, Coast to Coast AM, claiming to have one on his property. Mel said his property is about nine miles west of Ellensburg, Washington, adjacent to Manastash Ridge. He and his neighbors and the property's previous owners had thrown their trash into the hole for decades. The 9' 9" in diameter hole had received everything from household waste and furniture to building debris to dead cows for as long as anyone could remember, yet it never seemed to fill up. Mel became self-admittedly obsessed with determining the depth of this curiosity. Being a former semi-pro shark fisherman, Mel had lowered three reels of 20 lb. fishing line with a one-pound weight at the end. After 1500 yards of monofilament and not hitting bottom, Mel began buying the fishing line in bulk reels to continue his experiment. When he expended 80,000 feet (24,384 m) of line and still not reaching the end as far as he could tell, Mel contacted Art to get explanations from his vast audience or ideas about what to try next. Aside from an undetermined depth, not much else was particularly strange about the pit to Mel except that dogs refused to get within 100 feet of it, and birds wouldn't sit on its stone retaining wall or metal cover. Also unusual was that no echo from the hole could be heard, nor anything crashing on its floor even when objects as unwieldy as refrigerators or television CRT tubes were tossed in. This description of what Mel thought might be the deepest hole on Earth intrigued Art, and he called Mel for an interview that night. During the discussion, Mel also relayed some other fascinating folklore he'd heard, such as a hunter tossing his deceased dog, only for it later to be seen running around but not answering his call. Another neighbor had told Mel that he once saw a "blacker than black" beam shooting up into the sky from the hole on a recent evening. This could just be another puzzling and amusing anecdote from one of the usual characters calling into the show, except Mel contacted Art on February 24 with some startling news. Mel claimed that the day after his first call, the land where the hole was located had been seized by armed military personnel who denied him access with veiled threats while heavy equipment was brought in. Mel Waters would call in for an update interview two more times in April 2000 and January 2002, but for 1997, the mystery of Mel and his hole would pause with a purported offer from the US Government that he couldn't refuse. Join us for Part 1 of this "Best of Art Bell" saga as we dive deep into the legend of "Mel's Hole." Visit our webpage for a lot more information on this episode.

Often when one hears about some group of people claiming to experience a highly strange event or similarly acting out in bizarre and irrational manners, it's easy and common to dismiss the episode as a case of "mass hysteria." Phenomena like the audience reaction to Orson Welles' War of the Worlds radio broadcast, "The Dancing Plague of 1518," the "Windshield-Pitting Mystery of 1954," and "The Mad Gasser of Mattoon" are considered by much of the public to be examples of mass hysteria. In the late 1930s and decades after, some sociologists used occurrences like those to help model their theory of "Social Contagion." Like the idea that one or several people claim to experience something unusual, others hear about it and start to see the same thing. Soon it all spirals into an epidemic of vast numbers of people all testifying to the same weirdness with no real, mystical cause. But is the potentially antiquated term of mass hysteria or even its modern descendant "mass psychogenic illness" accurate or helpful? When explaining how some collectives of people can declare to see the same impossible thing, or how communities usually react in predictable patterns when faced with the Fortean, are they all just "hysterical" or "ill?" Are these events all the same? With the Enfield Monster, sociologist David L. Miller used the incident as a case study for what seems a more suitable way to think about many of the stories we cover, not as contagion or hysteria, but as "Collective Action and Behavior." We may never know what these cryptic creatures and mysterious happenings genuinely are, but at least we can better understand how people react to them and each other when they show up. Regarding the experiencers, we can know what it wasn't. These are important considerations because, after all, what is the value to humans if a paranormal event occurs and no one is around to witness it?Visit our webpage for this episode for a lot more information!

On the evening of April 15, 1973, Enfield, Illinois, resident Henry McDaniel heard a scratching noise outside his door he thought might be a bear. He opened it to find a hideous creature he described as having "... three legs on it, a short body, two little, short arms coming out of its breast area, and two pink eyes as big as flashlights. It stood four and a half feet tall and was grayish colored. It was trying to get into the house." McDaniel grabbed his pistol and a flashlight and fired four shots at the beast, which was only 12 feet away, sure that he had hit it with the first shot. The bullets had no effect on the beast, as it made a hissing sound at McDaniel "much like a wildcat's" before bounding 50 to 75 feet towards a brush-lined railroad embankment in just three leaps. A neighbor of McDaniel's, ten-year-old Greg Garrett, claimed that 30 minutes before this encounter, the same creature had accosted him in his backyard, stepping on his sneakers and ripping them to shreds before the boy ran inside terrified. However, as a team of sociologists from Western Illinois University interviewed witnesses and townsfolk, Greg and his parents would later tell them they had concocted the story to tease their eccentric neighbor McDaniel and put one over on an out-of-town newsman. McDaniel would spot the same or similar creature again on May 6, around 3:00 a.m., casually ambling down the railroad track. After McDaniel reported his second sighting to WWKI radio, the media, thrill-seekers, and the sociologists mentioned above all came to Enfield to investigate, including the radio station's News Director, Rick Rainbow. Rainbow and three associates had their own run-in with a monster near McDaniel's place. Also joining the investigation was noted cryptozoologist Loren Coleman, along with famed WGN radio host Richard Crowe. Both experienced men would hear what Coleman described as "the most ungodly, piercing shriek you can imagine." Whatever this being or beings were, it became known as "The Enfield Horror" or "The Enfield Monster." It would be easy enough to pass off this tale as the fanciful yarn of a crackpot and some eager cryptid hunters who were the only ones in town to claim a brush with the beast, but were these Enfield monster sightings an isolated event? According to Coleman, in his later book, Bigfoot!: The True Story of Apes in America, there was a flap of different monster sightings in the Midwest before, during, and years after Enfield, yielding colorful names like "Momo" and "The Big Muddy Monster." Considering all these accounts that don't sound like the suggested kangaroos, bears, dogs, calves, deer, or escaped apes, could McDaniel have been right when he said, "If they do find it, they will find more than one, and they won't be from this planet, I can tell you that." Visit our webpage for this episode for a lot more information!

In the second part of our series on Charles Hoy Fort, we first return to the formative events of his adolescence that shaped his personality, career, and personal philosophies. Fort chronicled anecdotes from his youth in an unpublished manuscript titled Many Parts, written while in his 20s and of which only fragments remain. What can be gleaned from tales of his boisterous boyhood adventures, punctuated by harsh punishments from a strict father, is that it all instilled in Fort defiance of rules, dogma, and the expectations of hallowed establishments. He struggled to make sense of a childhood world that seemed rife with capricious events and outcomes, much as he later struggled to make sense of an adult world peppered with anomalous occurrences and their close-minded dismissal. We then examine Fort's journey from middle age to the end and his mindset towards and relationship with strange evidence. Just as he had been since he was a kid, Fort remained a collector. First of birds and rocks, then later stories of things that shouldn't happen yet still seemed to. And just as he had lost interest in labeling his natural finds in his teens, Fort perhaps lost interest in defining the enigmas he gathered and instead focused not on the labels and definitions but on the meaning and mechanics behind them. As much as Fort proved to be a "fly in the ointment" to hubristic scientists, critics, and clergy alike, his point was that the events themselves remained even more problematic, or as he wrote, "They will march." We must accept that the weirdness of our reality defies absolute conclusions. As we've also found with our research, any judgments on the impossible essentially boil down to belief. Or, as Fort summed up, "Here are the data. Make what you will, yourself, of them. . . . We have expressions: we don't call them explanations. We've discarded explanations with beliefs." If there is any conclusion we perhaps share with Charles Fort, it is this: if the paranormal and the supernatural genuinely exist, it certainly doesn't care what anyone believes. Visit our webpage for this episode for a lot more information!

Perhaps most everyone listening to this show is familiar with the term "Fortean," meaning something related to the paranormal, the supernatural, or just generally strange phenomena. But where did that term come from? How did "Forteana" come to describe many of the topics we cover on the podcast? We owe that cognomen and a good deal of our inspiration for our reportage to the work of one man, Charles Hoy Fort. Fort (b. August 6, 1874 - d. May 3, 1932) was a journalist, author, and researcher best known for his collection of accounts of extraordinary incidents and bizarre phenomena. These reports and Fort's commentaries and speculations on them mostly ended up in four books: The Book of the Damned (1919), New Lands (1923), Lo! (1931), and Wild Talents (1932). Within these volumes of nonfiction are found testimonies of rains of meat, frogs, blood, manna, black rain, and unbelievably large stones, poltergeists and spontaneous human combustion, vampires, animal mutilations, UFOs, and alien abductions – anomalies we're familiar with nowadays. Fort is also widely credited for coining the term "teleportation." However, there were likely no other compilations of these incredible tales in Fort's time or before, aside from local newspaper reports. For that reason alone, those of us who are fascinated by such subjects owe him a debt of gratitude. For over 30 years, Fort pored over magazines, books, newspapers, and scientific journals in New York and London libraries and had amassed thousands of notes on odd occurrences. By his own account, Fort would become discouraged by the futility of his endeavors and purpose and claimed to have tossed into the wind around 48,000 notes once while sitting on a park bench at The Cloisters in New York City. Yet his defiance at the dismissal or ridicule from contemporary scientists, or the mystification by religious thinking about these happenings, kept him working until the end. Fort's theories about the causes of such impossibilities would evolve or vacillate throughout his oeuvre, sometimes even within the same book. Whether speculating that the paranormal is the prank of some kind of "Cosmic Joker," to these aberrations being the vestigial byproducts of extraordinary primordial human survival skills, Fort remained compelled by their occurrences regardless. As suggested by the title, The Book of the Damned, Fort postulated that the facts of these cases were "damned" to be excluded by science. Yet no amount of scoffing from anyone would keep the data from these baffling events from proceeding – "they'll march" on, and so did Charles Hoy Fort. We're glad that they, and he, did. Visit our webpage for this episode for a lot more information!

In tonight's Part Two of our series, we continue with the "Why?" of Tiwanaku and Pumapunku. As in, why was it all built? Why did Tiwanaku society spend so much effort and resources on it, and what did it mean to them? We then transition to the "How?" such a monumental architectural and cultural feat could be accomplished. What craftsmanship skills and construction technology did they possess to erect structures that continue to baffle present-day archaeologists and engineers? Could an organic technique of creating geopolymers, or essentially a type of concrete, explain the precise geometric shapes attained? Or was it a combination with a lost art of stone softening and shaping to achieve such exact tolerances? Perhaps they were just some of the best stonemasons in the world, with modern-quality chisels, drills, saws, and generations of labor at their disposal? And how did they come by their craft, through observation of nature and technical evolution, or some otherworldly source? We'll ask our good friend, Chemical Engineer Dr. Chris Cogswell, Ph.D., of The Mad Scientist Podcast, about the theoretical possibilities of ancient formulations as it applies to material sciences and their implications. Finally, we'll speculate on hypotheses and one aspect of the Tiwanaku enigma that is no less important than studying its stones – the legends and the beliefs that sparked its creation. For it is the folklore and spirituality of a culture that echoes through the ages, adding wonder about the mystery of Pumapunku.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

We’ve all heard of the mystical and wondrous ancient civilizations of Mesoamerica and South America: The Maya, Olmecs, Aztecs, and the Inca. But one culture that developed on the southern end of Lake Titicaca in present-day western Bolivia near the border with Peru left behind ruins so monumental they continue to intrigue archaeologists and spark hypotheses of anachronistic, advanced technologies. The Inca referred to Lake Titicaca as their origin place. The culture that evolved in the region became known as Yaya-Mama, or “Father-Mother,” for the sculptures depicting dualistic Male-Female opposites. The remains of the capital city for this society are now known as Tiwanaku, one of the most significant archaeological sites in South America. Beginning as a small village in the BCE period, Tiwanaku grew to an enormous metropolis for its time. Peaking around 700 to 1000 CE, with a population near 40,000 and as many as 500,000 people settling in the high plains valley, what remains is a little over one and a half square miles of artifacts such as impressively carved stone gates and monolith statues, artisan ceramics, and quality metalwork. But perhaps the most awe-inspiring remnants are found at a particular spot within Tiwanaku called Pumapunku. Translating as “Gate of the Puma,” archaeologists define Pumapunku as a ceremonial and elite residential complex constructed in the typical fashion of a sunken court surrounded by plazas and ramps, sitting on a terraced platform mound. Yet what makes Pumapunku stand out from other similarly designed sites is the sophisticated masonry of its massive stone blocks ranging in size from 30 to 130 tons. Baffling as it is to imagine how these stones may have been quarried and moved great distances, it’s even more unaccountable how the Tiwanaku were able to cut the blocks so precisely they fit like interlocking puzzle pieces. This feat has some guessing the lost techniques were known only to them or even guided by otherworldly visitors. With construction beginning between 500 and 600 CE and rebuilt over the following centuries, the city would fall just as mysteriously, sometime around 1000 CE. Whether from natural disaster, withering from internal strife, or some violent end, Pumapunku and Tiwanaku leave us with one of the world’s great archaeological enigmas. Tonight, we unearth the artifacts and culture of a city once known by the Aymara people of the Bolivian Andes as “stone in the center,” meaning the center of the world.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

In part two of our conversation with Remote Viewing instructor Lori Lambert Williams, we'll discuss what is known about how the process works and what is still unknown. Including how the practice can get your non-local consciousness to work with your subconscious and how it can improve your daily life. We'll also explore the mechanics and procedure of a Controlled Remote Viewing session. Lori relays anecdotes and answers to frequently asked questions, such as about her successes and the types of challenges that a professional remote viewer must overcome when viewing operational targets. Ultimately, if you believe that Remote Viewing doesn't work and that somehow the Stanford Research Institute was able to fool its CIA and DIA overseers in 23 years of repeatable demonstrations of its effectiveness, it doesn't matter to anyone who's tried it. Perhaps an apropos response would be that of Sir William Crookes when asked to explain the psychic abilities of D. D. Home, responding, "I didn't say it was possible, I said it happened!" Maybe a more relevant and profound observation comes from physicist Russell Targ near the end of his banned TED Talk about Psi and Remote Viewing, saying that you can use it to find your car keys, find a parking space, or make money in the Stock Market. But in his opinion, the most important thing Remote Viewing can do for you is to discover who you are.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

We're honored and excited to present a conversation with our good friend and Remote Viewing sensei Lori Lambert Williams. Lori first started studying Remote Viewing back in 1996, mentored by her now longtime friend, Lyn Buchanan. Lyn was one of the original members of the military unit of Viewers created in 1972 at the Standford Research Institute by physicists Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff and sanctioned as Project Stargate by the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency. With Lyn's tutelage and enthusiastic blessing, Lori has become one of only a few certified instructors with a long professional and practical experience history. While adept in its various forms and applications such as Associative Remote Viewing and Extended Remote Viewing, Lori's emphasis is the technique of Controlled Remote Viewing, generally defined as "the controlled use of one's intuitive ability through a structured written protocol." Her latest book, Boundless: Your How-To Guide to Practical Remote Viewing, Phase One, is a thoroughly accessible and enjoyable easy-to-use manual for anyone to begin their journey in learning the process. In part one of our discussion, we'll cover Lori's experience with the practice, its guiding principles and concepts, and how it may be used to improve your daily life. Perhaps just as mind-bending as the verified result is that Remote Viewing is a skill that anyone can learn regardless of how much psychic ability you believe you possess. The most skeptical are often shocked and amazed by the success of their first attempt.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

One of the most baffling, disturbing, and popular subjects we've ever covered on the show is the mystery of Skinwalker Ranch. The groundbreaking book Hunt for the Skinwalker was the source for most of our research. And this is why we're honored and excited to discuss the follow-up book Skinwalkers at the Pentagon: An Insiders' Account of the Secret Government UFO Program, with two of its authors, Colm A. Kelleher, Ph.D., and George Knapp. Colm Kelleher is a biochemist specializing in cell biology and, since the early 1990s, has focused his work initially in the fields of cancer research and immunology. George Knapp is an investigative journalist based in Las Vegas, Nevada, whose probing into the secrets of Area 51 and related paranormal phenomena have garnered him accolades and authority for his 30 years of reporting. It's also secured him a recurring role for the past 12 years as a guest host for the legendary Coast to Coast AM radio program. Both men were tapped early on by hotel magnate and aerospace industrialist Robert Bigelow to lend their talents to his National Institute for Discovery Sciences (NIDS). The goal was to apply bona fide scientific study to the High Strangeness experienced on the Sherman property in northeastern Utah, now known popularly as "Skinwalker Ranch." With their sequel Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, Kelleher, and Knapp, along with James T. Lacatski, D. Eng. have revealed the startling connection between the Defense Intelligence Agency's Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) and its investigation into troubling interactions with military operations such as the infamous "Tic Tac video" and universal, trickster-like paranormal actors. Government investigators found that simply visiting the Ranch could spur UFO sightings, poltergeist activity, frightening visits from Shadow Beings and cryptids, and most chillingly, the encounters would follow them and spread like a contagion to family members and even their neighborhoods. From tonight's discussion, we can conclude that far from each phenomenon being unrelated, everything may very well be connected. And that implication is a profound shock to our complacent reality because there's nothing any of us can do about it.For a lot more information on this episode, visit our website.

We at Astonishing Legends love… well... legends of course, and myths, and traditions. The first two often lead to the latter. But none of it, no story we've ever come across or covered, happens in a vacuum. The one constant connection between all of it, which matters most to us, is people. And so continuing on with a new tradition of our own, we'd like to present another Astonishing All-Star Holiday Special. It's time to congregate with great friends, share stories and ideas, and reflect on things that keep us searching for answers in a spirit of wonder and imagination. Once again, we're joined by our paranormal cadre, in alphabetical order: Micah Hanks, Jim Harold, Richard Hatem, Rob Kristoffersen, a special segment from our own Tess Pfeifle, and our most cherished guest, YOU. As we relax and enjoy this new tradition of a virtual year-end party. Please keep in mind that as everything is connected, so is everyone, in a profound and meaningful way. We are all in this together, and none of us have to face it alone.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

More people have personal paranormal stories than you know. Even some of your relatives or your closest friends. They're not likely to share those stories because they know or suspect the telling will be met with, at the least, eye-rolling or good-natured ribbing, and at the worst, ridicule, scorn, and even anger. Beyond confessions of seeing ghosts or cryptids, this seems to be even more true for claims of encountering UFOs or UAP. And further still, as more people seem to be willing to consider that extraterrestrial vehicles exist, believing that there are beings that control these objects, ones that would logically have an agenda, is paradoxically too far of a leap for most to take. But to hear someone else's paranormal anecdote, if you convince them that you'd be respectful and open-minded, or better yet, lead and open up with your own story, you'll often find they're glad or relieved to be able to share one of theirs. Sometimes the reason for sharing can simply be the reassurance that they're "not the only one" and that they're "not crazy." Terry Lovelace received an overwhelming response to his first book from readers whose own experiences "clicked" with his or who had deep-seated memories triggered by his account. Since March of 2018, Terry received over 2000 emails from readers about their own extraordinary encounters, and 30 of the most intriguing testimonies compose the second half of his follow-up book, Devil's Den: The Reckoning. In part two of our discussion with Terry, the three of us will take turns reading six of the most fascinating and compelling stories from his book, commenting on each. One remarkable irony and takeaway upon hearing these accounts is that many of the most chilling, thought-provoking stories of UFOs and alien abduction don't even mention those two things.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

We're proud and pleased to bring back one of our most intriguing guests, Terry Lovelace, Esq., to talk about his new book, Devil's Den: The Reckoning. Our first interview with Terry, episode 155: "Abduction at Devil's Den," which aired on October 13, 2019, is one of our most popular and one of the most talked-about. Surprisingly, not because of its controversial nature, but because Terry's unassailable character has imbued chilling credibility to his claims, leaving the listener to ponder the terrifying implications. Terry's first book chronicled his life-long encounters with extraterrestrial beings, culminating in a partially-suppressed, horrific abduction while camping with his best friend at Devil's Den State Park in Arkansas. At the time, Terry and his friend Toby served in the USAF as EMTs stationed at Whiteman AFB in June of 1977. While the ordeal would sadly ruin Toby's life, Terry would go on to a successful career in law, eventually becoming Assistant Attorney General for the U.S. Territory of American Samoa and a State's Attorney for Vermont's Board of Medical Practice. Currently working as a certified healthcare risk manager, the first half of Terry's follow-up book expands on his lifetime of experiences, including mind-blowing details he initially left out, thinking they would be too outrageous and incredible for the reader to believe. The second half of Terry's new book, which we'll cover in part two of our conversation, features stories sent to him by his readers who have had their own bizarre and impossible experiences. Join us tonight for some answers to a reckoning for an incident at Devil's Den.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode!

Now that we've heard the shocking details of Ronnie Hunkeler's exorcism, we're once again left to wonder at what point does a logical, scientific explanation become inadequate in accounting for all the extreme events that occurred? Looking objectively at Ronnie's behavior before, during, and after the exorcisms, those who favor a psychiatric or medical diagnosis could explain them as the result of an ailment like Obsessive-compulsive disorder, Dissociative identity disorder, or perhaps Anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis along with comorbidities. For those who believe in supernatural possibilities, then a spiritual force of possession could explain the incredible actions, or maybe one in conjunction with a medical condition; for them, the two are not mutually exclusive. Yet mental illness or a brain abnormality only goes so far in explaining Ronnie's lifetime of conduct. While he may have had a difficult childhood with an overbearing mother and grandmother, there are no indications that he suffered any ongoing abuse severe enough to bring about PTSD that is often the gateway to the mental illnesses mentioned above. After Ronnie's time with the priests and the rites, it seems he went on to lead a disorder-free life with a successful career. Our current understanding of psychology states that these conditions don't go away on their own and are only manageable by the patient through ongoing behavioral therapy and medication. And if the eye-witness testimony is correct, then psychological diagnoses can't begin to account for the poltergeist activity experienced leading up to and during the exorcisms. In the end, whatever horrors that terrorized Ronnie and those around him in 1949 seemed to leave him once and for all, but they may not have left every place he experienced them. In our final chapter on this series, we'll hear from our friend, popular St. Louis radio talk show host Dave Glover. In 2008, Dave and his crew staged a contest for one of their Halloween Specials. Three listeners won the chance to see if they could sit alone for an hour in the bedroom where Ronnie's exorcism began, in the former home of Ronnie's aunt and uncle, Doris and Leonard Hunkeler, on Roanoke Drive in Bel Nor, Missouri. None of them made it past a few minutes. Whether from overactive imaginations or a lingering presence of evil, either explanation for the primal fear and torment one feels matters as little to the person at that moment as it does to the Devil himself. Neither he nor your senses care what you believe. Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

We've probably all seen exorcisms performed in movies and TV, but how accurate are those portrayals? Are they really as ferociously terrifying as these shows would have us believe? Where did the writers get their ideas and details about what actually takes place during an exorcism? The Roman Catholic Church has only one sanctioned procedure, and it's in the 23 pages of "The Great Exorcism Rite" contained within the Rituale Romanum. Compiled in 1614 at the request of Pope Paul V, with minor updates added in 1952 and 1999, it is still the only rite used to this day. With this sacrament guiding the Jesuit's efforts recorded in the "Exorcist's Diary" documenting the exorcism of Ronnie Hunkeler, it can be argued that this account is the inspiration for most everything portrayed in entertainment media. And therefore mostly informing what the general public has seen and knows about an authentic exorcism. Tonight in Part Two of our series, you'll hear about some of the actual occurrences that took place, and it is not for the faint of heart. While the priests can orchestrate the ritual, they cannot engineer the actions of the seemingly possessed, and the events are often intensely unsettling, no matter what one believes. For the skeptic and faithful alike, witnessing an exorcism in person would chill anyone to the core of their soul.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

We've probably all seen exorcisms performed in movies and TV, but how accurate are those portrayals? Are they really as ferociously terrifying as these shows would have us believe? Where did the writers get their ideas and details about what actually takes place during an exorcism? The Roman Catholic Church has only one sanctioned procedure, and it's in the 23 pages of "The Great Exorcism Rite" contained within the Rituale Romanum. Compiled in 1614 at the request of Pope Paul V, with minor updates added in 1952 and 1999, it is still the only rite used to this day. With this sacrament guiding the Jesuit's efforts recorded in the "Exorcist's Diary" documenting the exorcism of Ronnie Hunkeler, it can be argued that this account is the inspiration for most everything portrayed in entertainment media. And therefore mostly informing what the general public has seen and knows about an authentic exorcism. Tonight in Part Two of our series, you'll hear about some of the actual occurrences that took place, and it is not for the faint of heart. While the priests can orchestrate the ritual, they cannot engineer the actions of the seemingly possessed, and the events are often intensely unsettling, no matter what one believes. For the skeptic and faithful alike, witnessing an exorcism in person would chill anyone to the core of their soul.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

What every horror film loves to boast, if possible, is the claim of "Based on a True Story." Because if the story is not just from some writer's imagination, if there is a thread to an actual event with real people, no matter how thin, then the fear becomes more real. William Friedkin's 1973 motion picture The Exorcist is considered one of, if not the scariest horror film of all time. At that time, no audience had seen a case of demonic possession dramatized so deftly and explicitly, and the resulting shock left a lasting mark on popular culture and our collective psyche. Not as widely known is that William Peter Blatty adapted his Oscar-winning screenplay for the movie from his novel of the same name. And perhaps even lesser-known to most is that Blatty based his book on a real-life case, what is more commonly known as the "1949 Exorcism," or "The Exorcism of Roland Doe," or of "Robbie Mannheim." The Jesuits of the Catholic Church who examined the 13-year-old boy exhibiting either severe mental and emotional disturbances or authentic spiritual possession referred to him at the time only as "R" in their journal about the investigation. This report, known informally as the "Exorcist's Diary," is the only complete documented account of the events, and it kept the boy's identity anonymous out of respect. Guiding our examination of the story is the exhaustive work of our friend and guest for the Villisca Axe Murder series, investigative author Troy Taylor. Troy's updated version of his book, The Devil Came to St. Louis – UNCENSORED," is the culmination of over 20 years of research and interviews with surviving witnesses to the incredible occurrences. Troy had kept a promise not to reveal "R's" real name and sensitive details until after his death. Now that "Roland Doe" had passed away in May of 2020, Troy was free to publish the 4th edition of his book in 2021, revealing previously unpublicized information, including his name. Troy's book and our presentation aim at getting to the facts behind an actual, largely forgotten case that haunted the mindset of a generation. But don't think that separating the myths from the facts will make this tale any less frightening. For if even the slightest supernatural happening in this record is accurate, and there is plenty of testimony to support that it is, it's enough to unsettle your beliefs. If the wildest and worst accounts are true, and you're unsure what to believe, then most disturbing may be the adage that not believing in the Devil won't protect you from him. Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

As we continue with Part Two of our discussion with Richard Hatem of Ken Webster's book, The Vertical Plane, we find that "The Mystery of the Dodleston Messages" has become even more fantastical and bizarre. As unimaginable as it would be to ostensibly communicate with a living person from hundreds of years ago, Ken and his friends now find themselves on something of a "Party Line" via their computer with beings or perhaps some form of intelligence from a distant future or existence. Identifying itself as "2109," this individual or agency soon warns that Ken's meddling with the construct of space-time by continuing to communicate with Lukas, now known as "Tomas," could irreparably damage the fabric of our reality. However, this 2109 and company don't appear to be very professional in conducting their lording over timelines. Often petulant and annoyingly cryptic, 2109 teases to provide advanced knowledge yet lacks the wisdom or adroitness in controlling its faculties. It also appears another agent of 2109 was working to confound their authority by providing Tomas the means to communicate into the future in the first place. Who are the ghosts, the living, and the beings residing in the margins between the two? If 2109 is telling the truth and a form of time travel is possible, this raises many interesting, often asked questions and even more concerns. For instance, are there numerous, perhaps an infinite number of parallel timelines where versions of yourself exist, and what would happen if you were to interact with one negatively? As unlikely as this may seem, even more disturbing is the thought that there may be semi-omniscient entities who might be fumbling with the levers of control over them. Whether you believe The Vertical Plane to be factual or merely an entertaining new genre of "Science Non-fiction," the age-old adage holds fast – it's usually good practice not to talk to strangers.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Many of us enjoy a good ghost story. Many of us enjoy Science Fiction. But how many stories do you know that start off as one and evolve into the other? What's become known as "The mystery of the Dodleston messages" is precisely just such a case. And if the story is accurate, it comes with some of the most incredible, baffling, and mind-bending implications we've ever encountered. Towards the end of summer in 1984, teacher and musician Ken Webster was renovating his 16th-century home named "Meadow Cottage" when the strange activity began. Located in the village of Dodleston, four miles southwest of the town of Chester in northwest England near the border with Wales, life was taking its usual somnambulistic pace while dusted with the discomfort and drudgery of living in a small, historical residence during construction. But one day, while Webster's lodger friend Nicola helped to decorate, the pair noticed tiny, six-toed footprints going up the wall that would reappear even after repainting. Then, it seemed a poltergeist repeatedly stacked their pantry goods in a playful yet orderly fashion. Clearly to them, some acquaintance was having a laugh at their expense. But a bigger mystery unfolded after Webster brought home a BBC brand word processor from his school so Nicola could write comedy sketches. Ken Webster, Nicola, and Ken's girlfriend Debbie noticed that someone was leaving at first cryptic messages on the microcomputer, but seemingly written in the style of 16th-century English. Before long, the epistler, or as the trio first thought, merry prankster, had identified himself as "Lukas" and was wondering what all these strange but decent folks were doing in his farmhouse, mucking about. Through leaving text documents back and forth, an ongoing conversation and friendship developed. Lukas claimed to be the original owner of the cottage. Not only that, he said he was currently living under the reign of King Henry VIII and his queen of the moment, Catherine Parr, making Lukas' lifetime the 1540s of England. But as unbelievable as this more than 400-year-old correspondence appeared, the situation would become even more bizarre as Lukas, Ken, and his friends would find themselves embroiled in royal Tudor intrigue with trying to save Lukas' life. Complicating this otherworldly drama was the emergence of mysterious correspondents who claimed to be manipulating this portal through time. As relatively mundane as Lukas' messages often were, these new entities professed to be from the future, or perhaps a possible future, and warned that messing with the paradoxes of time travel could lead to terrible consequences with alternate timelines. Ken Webster documented this series of mind-blowing events in his book, The Vertical Plane, published in 1989. Tonight, we're joined once again by our great friend and paranormal oracle, Richard Hatem. Rich made us aware of this story by generously gifting us Webster's book, years before its now princely sum of over $500 for a used, out-of-print copy on Amazon. Part One of our series on this unimaginable occurrence will focus on how Webster and his friends got to know this true "Renaissance Man" and leading up to the possibility that there are overlords of time who can dabble in our destinies.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Now that we've covered the story essentials of the strange case of Mary Lurancy Vennum, known as "The Watseka Wonder," it's time to take a look at the possible causes and mechanics of this apparent miracle. Suppose Lurancy's possession was merely the imaginative prank of an attention-seeking impressionable teenager. How then did she know intimate, inscrutable details of her possessor Mary Roff and that of her family, when Mary had died over ten years before she was born and the Roff family were vague acquaintances? It's perhaps possible that this naive fourteen-year-old had mastered the manipulation techniques employed by experienced Mentalists and charlatan psychic mediums to fool desperate parents, but how likely is that? In Part Two of our series, we consider the investigation of a noted psychical researcher at the time, Dr. Richard Hodgson, who interviewed witnesses and studied case notes about thirteen years after the significant events in light of contemporary hypotheses. In a historical line between 1877 and 1908, we then look at the analysis of a psychology journalist, H. Addington Bruce, through the lens of his evolved understanding of that field 30 years later. In the greater context surrounding this case are the history of psychical research and a brief overview of some of the prominent figures involved in the Spiritist movement. We then round out the series with a more modern-day interpretation and our own conclusions. Even saddled with an antiquated title like The Watseka Wonder and recognizing the significant advancements in the field of abnormal psychology, this case remains wonderous indeed.Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

An apartment complex hosts a big Halloween party with themed rooms and costumed partygoers. By the end of the night, one of the party’s hosts is murdered. And the partygoers are the main suspects in the eyes of the police: was it the guy in the devil mask, the guy dressed as Jesus, the bank robber, the construction worker? As a complex investigation winds its way through forensic evidence, witness testimony, DNA, and even a psychic, the police zero in on one suspect in particular -- but why? From Campside Media and Wondery, the makers of Chameleon and the Shrink Next Door, comes SUSPECT. Matthew Shaer and Eric Benson (Over My Dead Body) return to the scene of the crime to uncover what happened, and speak with everyone about a party that still haunts them a decade later. It’s a series about cutting-edge science and mislaid justice, race and policing, and the kinds of weighty choices that cops and prosecutors make every day. Choices that, once made, are difficult to reverse.Suspect

We often wonder when was the first time a now well-known phenomenon first occurred or was recorded. In the instance of spiritual possession, at least in the United States, we may have an answer in the case known as “The Watseka Wonder.” Indeed, if such a condition exists, it’s likely people have been claiming or appearing to be possessed by a supernatural force since human beings existed. However, many cite the Watseka story as the first well-documented example of a person appearing to have been taken over by a deceased human spirit. This historical incident also benefits from the thorough documentation from a credible source. At the time, a physician and Spiritist, Dr. E. Winchester Stevens, treated his patient experiencing the possession and wrote about the bizarre events soon after they occurred in a book he titled, The Watseka Wonder. Stevens’ report details the story of Mary Lurancy Vennum, who began to suffer from cataleptic-like seizures at the age between thirteen and fourteen years old. On July 11, 1877, the first attack happened where Lurancy passed out on the floor and remained unconscious for five hours. The “fit,” as it was called back then, happened the next day as well, except that this time while in something of a trance, she spoke of being in heaven and in the company of various spirits. She described some of these spirits as angels and claimed to talk to a departed sister and a brother who died when Lurancy was just 3. Her episodes occurred in greater frequency by January of the following year, some lasting from an hour to eight hours and as many as twelve times per day. Her religiously orthodox parents and the numerous doctors that examined her feared she had become insane, and the only option left was to have her committed to an asylum. However, a respected, casual acquaintance of the Vennum family, Asa B. Roff, became intrigued by Lurancy’s condition and instead convinced her parents to let Dr. E. W. Stevens treat the girl using Spiritist methods. To everyone’s astonishment, Lurancy then started to behave like she was inhabited by the soul of Roff’s daughter Mary. Mary Roff had passed away more than a decade before Lurancy was born. Join us tonight for Part 1 of our series, where we cover the circumstances of perhaps America’s first acknowledged case of “spirit infestation,” known as “The Watseka Wonder.”Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

One question we often receive is, do we think the US Government will ever disclose the existence of UFOs? We believe the answer is, they've already begun. Since the groundbreaking, front-page article appeared in the December 17, 2017 edition of the New York Times with a title exclaiming "Real UFOs," the world has seen drips and drops of Pentagon-authenticated video clips and statements publically disseminated and officially validated. Add to this the testimonies of some of the most credible sources willing to come forward, such as Luis "Lue" Elizondo, former director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program or AATIP at the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Pentagon, Christopher Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, and retired veteran US Navy fighter pilot Commander David Fravor. The claims become hard to dismiss as goofball flights of fancy. On June 25, 2021, the release of a report titled Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena by the Office of the Director Of National Intelligence was considered anemic by many who wanted FULL disclosure of what the government knows. However, it was another official admission that these encounters are certified and remain a mystery to our military. At least on the surface. And what is known currently by the general public above this surface owes a great deal to the efforts of our guest tonight, a field researcher and documentarian Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell. Jeremy's pursuit and publication of unclassified video from Naval electronic warfare targeting systems like the now-famous "Tic Tac" clip have stirred public imagination and debate. They may have even spurred congressional inquiry resulting in that preliminary report and future disclosures. But we owe our access to Jeremy to the facilitation from a long-time listener and now friend Adam. Adam and Jeremy became friends while investigating a cattle mutilation near Adam's storage property in the Texas panhandle region. Tonight, we'll discuss Jeremy's journey to becoming a clearinghouse for genuine UFO footage, his documentary work on the subjects of Bob Lazar and Skinwalker Ranch, and he and Adam's findings from their cattle mutilation case, and all the implications thereof. One curious and ironic conclusion when trying to connect all the dots is that the specific governmental disclosure on alien life, their motivations, abductions, and cattle mutilations seem like it could be another matter altogether. Visit our website for a lot more information on this episode.

Here's a question: What makes a haunted house spooky if you've never been there? How scary can a haunted house be if no one has repeatedly investigated it? In other words, what is more frightening, the honest anecdotes about experienced paranormal activity in a haunted location or the unverified legends and lore of a place that send the frights of our imagination into overdrive? And what makes a house haunted? Is it the house or land itself, the activities and energy of its inhabitants, or a reciprocal combination of both? These are questions that would be apropos for tonight's subject, a house known as the Wilbur-Hahn manor in Spokane, Washington. The craftsman-style mansion came to life in September of 1916, when the heiress to the Hecla Silver Mine fortune, Sarah Smith, married playboy Ralston T. "Jack" Wilbur. Jack Wilbur had used Sarah's money to hire an eminent architect to build a three-story, seventeen-room house in Spokane's historied and tony South Hill neighborhood. For the princely sum of $75,000, the estate, sitting on nearly four acres of land, flaunted imported marble, gold-leaf carvings, and mahogany paneling inlaid with mother of pearl brought from China. However, the newly minted Mrs. Wilbur didn't fancy the home, and with this and other tumults in the marriage, Smith, and Wilbur divorced in 1918. The following notorious couple to occupy the house was Rudolph A. Hahn and his second wife Sylvia, thirty-two years his junior. Hahn purchased the manor in 1924 and spent $50,000 on additions, like a swimming pool and lavish gardens with fountains and statues, along with rumored secret panels and tunnels. Obtaining a doctor's license through a correspondence course, Hahn made a fortune performing electroshock therapy and illegal medical procedures for Spokane's well-heeled. The money, which some believe Hahn had stashed on the property, fueled his love of wild parties, fast cars, boats, and racehorses, much to the neighbors' dismay. But the excess and extravagant lifestyle of this real-life "Great Gatsby" would eventually lead to his bizarre murder in a seedy hotel downtown known as The New Madison Hotel. Perhaps it was the raucous, illicit activities and extreme emotions witnessed by the estate that imprinted somehow. Reports of arguing phantom voices or boisterous laughter, vanishing bloodstains, shadow figures, the apparition of a woman at the top of the stairs, and even screams and mysterious noises heard by passersby are forever bound to the house. The lesson of such an infamous place as the Wilbur-Hahn manor is that no matter how private any owners are, they cannot curb the spirits or the legend of a haunted mansion, and spooky is as spooky does.Visit our website for a whole lot more information on this website, and seriously, we're talking a LOT more.

It's much more comfortable for most of us to think of paranormal subjects as having their origins beginning only in recent history – an amusing byproduct of mid-twentieth century foolishness or the internet age. Much easier to dismiss then. Many people, persuaded by an uninformed media, believe UFOs only started appearing to the public after pilot Kenneth Arnold's famous sighting while flying near Mt. Rainier on June 24, 1947, or the incident in Roswell, NM, just fourteen days later. Similarly, many people believe the Bigfoot or Sasquatch phenomenon only began in 1958 in Bluff Creek, California, after the family of Ray Wallace claimed he started it all by leaving large, fake footprints made with wooden carvings as a prank. It's uncomfortable to consider that these unnerving intrusions into our comfortable reality had occurred for maybe hundreds, if not thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of years before our sophisticated logic matured. However, researchers who study paranormal phenomena know that reports of these things, especially Bigfoot, go back far beyond written history. Unfortunately, yet not surprisingly, there seems to be an air of ethnocentrism and hubris when it comes to western scientists giving credence to the indigenous oral traditions of encounters with these massive, hairy ape-like beasts. Yet, it stands to reason that if any of these beings truly existed, their origins likely go back further than the birth of Rock and Roll. So, how far back do the sightings of Bigfoot and Sasquatch go? Here's a hint: it's a lot more ancient and global than you probably imagined. To help us explore this enigma, we're fortunate to have our dear friend, researcher, science enthusiast, author, and fellow podcaster Micah Hanks join us for a roundtable discussion. We'll hear about his latest research into the earliest known writings and oral histories of the cryptic cousin creature we've come to know and love. Visit our website for a whole lot more information on this website, and seriously, we're talking a LOT more.

Our goal in covering the story of the Perron family's experience while living for a decade at the Arnold Estate, the inspiration for the motion picture, The Conjuring, was to uncover the real story behind the persistent hauntings. What we discovered once again was the actual truths at the heart of this, and other famous cases are as murky and nebulous as the spirits that do the haunting. The question that remains is, what is truth and what is real when it comes to supernatural activity? Skeptical researcher and writer Kenny Biddle investigated the historical people that the Perrons thought may have been the entities that lingered in their home. He found inconsistencies between the records of the lives and deaths of named locals and their claimed involvement with the farmhouse. But the attempt to cast doubt on the Perron story by focusing on historical inaccuracies is to go at the problem in an understandably linear, causal fashion, perhaps not one taken by a paranormal investigator. This leads us to the question, can the supernatural be analyzed with earthly rational thinking? For example, does a person have to die in the same place that their ghost supposedly haunts (if one even believes in ghosts), or can they move about freely? Can spirits visit only some individuals or occupants, or would they have to haunt everyone in the same space equally? Can spirits identify as something they're not, or do they have to tell the truth about who or what they are? What are the rules for something so mysterious? While many of us would like to apply standard logic to understanding the numen world, those that have experienced it might tell you no ordinary rationale matters. Despite the "facts," what they have witnessed was real and true enough.Visit our website for a whole lot more information on this website, and seriously, we're talking a LOT more.