.NET Rocks!

How do you balance architecture and code? Carl and Richard talk to Steve Smith about various architectural strategies and the swing back-and-forth against over-designing architecture and getting code written. Steve talks about how architecture changes depending on the size and number of teams, how the latest tools can help with architectural choices, and the challenge of effective refactoring when things need to change. Lots of great conversation!

Open Source Maintainers are burning out or going commercial - how do we solve this? Carl and Richard chat with Rob Mensching about his work to create the open source maintenance fee through GitHub. Rob talks about the common problem of single maintainers getting buried under issues and demands of consumers for a project. Recognizing that most people cannot contribute to the project, a maintenance fee helps support the maintainer in a low friction way for everyone involved. Check out the links to get started!

How can a large language model help your organization answer government RFPs? Carl and Richard talk to Vishwas Lele about his startup pWin, as in proposal win. Vishwas talks about being a year into the startup and his deeper understanding of how AI technologies can augment skilled operators to produce better quality products in less time, including responding to RFPs. The conversation digs into tuning the LLM to focus on the data relevant to each section of the RFP so that the operator can interact with the tool and build better responses!

Can you integrate performant audio-video into your .NET application? Carl and Richard talk to Elias Puurunen about his work at Tractus Events, where he uses the NDI protocols to bring real-time audio and video streams into his C# application. Elias talks about the power of P/Invoke to access the underlying libraries for controlling video streams, including utilizing NVidia GPUs for extremely fast encoding and decoding. You could write this code in C++, but why?

Ready to build an agentic AI in .NET? Carl and Richard talk to Spencer Schneidenbach about his work using large language models to enhance customer interactions in healthcare. Spencer discusses using the LLMs to summarize customer conversations to identify topic areas, sentiment, and other concerns. He digs into how Microsoft's Semantic Kernel makes connecting an OpenAI model to your APIs easy, fetching information and creating a context for testing reliability and consistency with these models. Check out the links for some great tools to help make your AI apps with .NET!

How do you measure the quality of a large language model? Carl and Richard talk to Dr. Jodie Burchell about her work measuring large language models for accuracy, reliability, and consistency. Jodie talks about the variety of benchmarks that exist for LLMs and the problems they have. A broader conversation about quality digs into the idea that LLMs should be targeted to the particular topic area they are being used for - often, smaller is better! Building a good test suite for your LLM is challenging but can increase your confidence that the tool will work as expected.

What are JavaScript promises, and why do you want to make them? Carl and Richard talk to Martine Dowden about all the various async options available in Javascript today, including Callbacks, Promises, Async/Await, and even ReactiveJS! Martine digs into some of the more remarkable features available, including grouping sync calls together so code is only called when they all complete, or the race option where only one needs to complete, and everything else is thrown away. Lots of power is available in Javascript today. Have you taken advantage of it?

What's the latest with .NET Aspire? Carl and Richard talk to Rob Richardson about his experiences with .NET Aspire to help build great .NET cloud apps. Rob talks about all the goodness that comes out of the box with Aspire, including OpenTelemetry, containerization, good security practices, and the excellent dashboard. The discussion turns to the challenges of evolving .NET to be better in the cloud, retrofitting existing applications with Aspire, and all the container choices you have in front of you with these tools. There's more than one way to fall into the pit of success!

Seventeen years of Automapper! Carl and Richard talk to Jimmy Bogard about his latest version of Automapper - and the challenge of maintaining a long-lived and much-loved open-source library! Jimmy talks about the origins of Automapper as a tool he needed for working with clients and automating the mapping of objects. Initially, he moved to GitHub on Codeplex in 2009, and as open source became more popular in the .NET community, Automapper has hundreds of millions of downloads. And now, the next challenge - how to sustain this open-source project!

React version 19 has been released! Carl and Richard talk to Aurora Scharff about the long-awaited version of React that incorporates React Server Components and many other features. Aurora talks about the rethink involved in switching to a server-first implementation of a React website, which is best suited for greenfield implementations. For existing React apps, you'll want to look at React Router, which has V7, incorporates Remix features, and provides a bridge between React 18 and 19. Lots of progress from the library that runs Facebook!

How can vertical architecture help you? Carl and Richard talk to Jeremy Miller about using vertical architecture to help build applications quickly and reliably. Jeremy talks about resisting the over-thinking of architecture leaving room for developers to build the app and get to results rapidly - by taking a vertical slice of the problem space, end-to-end, and getting something running as soon as possible. The conversation digs into many concerns about taking shortcuts, collaborating with other teams, duplicated work, and more!

Ready to speed up your cross-platform development? Carl and Richard chat with Francois Tanguay and Sasha Krsmanovic about Uno Hot Design. First shown at .NET Conf in 2024, Hot Design brings the Hot Reload experience to UX onto your various client devices. Francois talks about the evolution of the Uno Platform into a place where you can use a variety of client libraries to build your app and deploy your client of choice. But when it comes to iterating the implementation, Hot Design speeds your dev cycle so you can get more done in less time!

How do customers take control of their data from merchants? Carl and Richard chat with Richard Reukema about his book The Empowered Customer. Richard discusses building a data cooperative between customers and merchants using ethical data handling techniques and technology to create mutual benefit. The conversation dives into how to get merchants to migrate from their loyalty programs into this more constructive and broader model.

Can tooling make implementing AI features in your applications easier? Steve Sanderson says yes! Carl and Richard talk to Steve about the Microsoft.Extensions.AI preview toolset for OpenAI and oLlama. Steve discusses ideas around useful places for AI technologies to appear in your application, not just chat. The conversation digs into more ambient ideas, like providing suggested cut-and-paste items when entering forms and even dynamic changes to UI based on how a user interacts with the application. Want to get started? Get the extensions on NuGet!

Ready for a migration story? Carl and Richard talk to Nathan Westfall about his experiences moving an application for school buses from Xamarin Forms to Blazor. Nathan describes the interplay between a tablet on the bus for the driver, cloud services in AWS, and parent smartphones. The discussion dives into the advantages of Blazor on the client from a server resources perspective when dealing with hundreds of thousands of parents, plus being compliant with all of the rules and expectations of a public service sector product. Great insights on how to make apps people use every day!

What's a Microsoft DevBox, and why do you want one? Carl and Richard talk to Isaac Levin about the power of DevBox to help you get up and running fast with a development project. Issac describes a virtual workstation designed for software development with much more processing, memory, and storage options. With the management tools, you can quickly build templates to create new instances,and only pay for what you use. You can have instances for different projects, even different versions!

A visit from one of Scott Guthrie's Ninja Army! Carl and Richard chat with Rob Conery about his latest work with Microsoft technologies, including a VS Code extension for Copilot to understand Postgres databases! Rob talks about spending time in other programming platforms besides .NET to expand his horizons, which led him to create a tool called Viper.NET, similar to the tool from the Go platform, to help manage configuration. The conversation also visits and revisits the impact of GitHub Copilot, now with a free tier, and how it is helping software developers - and generating controversy!

How is your architectural intelligence? Carl and Richard talk to Thomas Betts about his thoughts on implementing AI-related technologies into applications. Thomas talks about stripping the magic out of AI and focusing on the realities - in the end, it's just another API you can call. The conversation digs into what useful implementations of large language models look like, as UX alternatives, summarizers, and tools for reviewing existing work.

It's a new year and time for an Energy Geek Out! Richard catches up on all the developments in energy generation over the past year, including solar, wind, wave, hydrogen, geothermal, nuclear, and more... the conversation also digs into the impacts of the cost of financing going up, the efficiency of different energy generation, and some of the new technologies on the horizon. There's been a lot of progress recently, including a new interest in nuclear power - how will this all play out?

The Space Geek Out for 2024! Richard talks to Carl about SpaceX breaking more records - the most flights in one year, including four test flights of Starship and the Heavy Booster - including the extraordinary catch of the booster in IFT-5! 2024 also saw the first flight of ULA's Vulcan and the second. And then there's the saga of Starliner - and the fact that Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore will spend ten months on the ISS instead of the planned eight days. More missions to the Moon mean more delays for Artemis, and the International Space Station gets a plan for its deorbit in 2030. New space stations are coming, but with lots of financial problems - will they be flown before the ISS comes down? Then there are all the new interplanetary missions and the ongoing expansion of knowledge brought by the James Webb Space Telescope, changing our thinking about how the universe was formed! Another great year in space - and 2025 looks even more amazing!

What's coming for GitHub? Carl and Richard talk to April Yoho about the recent announcements from GitHub Universe and how they will roll out in 2025. The biggest topic, of course, is all the large language models coming to GitHub - there are a bunch of copilots! April talks about original GitHub Copilot, Copilot Workspace, and Copilot Chat - so many options! Now, you can choose your language model to move beyond OpenAI. And there are other changes at GitHub, including EU residency, new features in the enterprise cloud, and new instrumentation - 2025 looks awesome!

How can event modeling help you build better applications? Carl and Richard talk to Adam Dymitruk about Event Sourcing and Event Modeling, including the new book Understanding Eventsourcing. Adam talks about thinking through business workflows as an approach to event sourcing, where new data is constantly added, never modified. These data streams can then be modeled into different workflows following consistent patterns that make your application straightforward to build and maintain. It does take effort to change your thinking to the event source/model approach but with huge potential!

How do you understand the quality of your code? Carl and Richard talk to Richard Gross about his open-source tool called CodeCharta. Richard talks about various ways you can use CodeCharta to understand your codebase - whether it is complexity, number of changes, or number of coders involved - there are many visualization opportunities. This leads to a discussion about what problematic code actually is. Sometimes, too many people work in the same place, and sometimes, there is only one. Some complexity is necessary, and sometimes it's just refactoring. But what tools like CodeCharta provide is a way to focus on potential points of change and then see when the change has been successful - and you can even print a 3D model to have a physical copy of your code!

How are Azure Static Websites evolving? Carl and Richard talk to Stacy Cashmore about her work with Azure Static Websites, including an update to her book, which is coming soon! Stacy talks about adapting to the latest version of .NET, taking advantage of some of the new features in Blazor, and new Azure Static Website capabilities, including the new Data API Builder. The conversation also explores some of the gotchas, like challenges with SEO and dealing with authentication and authorization strategies.

Let's talk about .NET 9 with one of the platform's leaders! Carl and Richard talk to Glenn Condron about his experiences building .NET 9. Glenn talks about the usual improvements in every version of .NET, including performance, security, and stability. But the new stuff is where the excitement is, starting with Aspire. The conversation digs deeper into the origin story of Aspire and what the team sees as the future of building cloud-native applications with .NET. Then, a dive into all things AI - tools to help developers create applications, as well as how to include AI capabilities in your applications. And there's more to come - .NET 10 is only a year away!

Ready for more Rockstar? Carl and Richard chat with Dylan Beattie about the programming language known as Rockstar. Dylan talks about a joke that got wildly out of hand - back when recruiters were all about rockstar developers, why shouldn't there be a programming language? And then it happened - a language where the code looks (and sounds) like glam rock lyrics! And now there's a new version coming - more rocking to be done!

How do you balance the coupling in your application? Carl and Richard talk to Vlad Khononov about his book on Balancing Coupling in Software Design. Vlad talks about three aspects of coupling - information, distance, and volatility. When these aspects are out of balance, such as a pair of services that are distant from each other but highly dependent and need lots of information, development becomes difficult. Where information is high, keeping the distance low makes life easier. This led to a great conversation about Conway's Law and the idea that sometimes changing the team organization can lead to better application development! Check out the book!

What's coming for Blazor in .NET 9? Carl and Richard talk to Dan Roth about the upcoming version of Blazor. Dan discusses excellent performance improvements, better MAUI interactions, new SignalR features, and more! The conversation also dives into how Blazor gets made and the journey that submitting issues into GitHub goes through to become features in the Blazor framework. It takes a while, but you can be part of making Blazor great!

What does it mean to build cloud-native applications? Carl and Richard talk to Chris Klug about his experiences building applications designed to operate effectively in the cloud. Chris pushes back on the fixation around Kubernetes - you can build cloud-native apps without it! The conversation digs into the various options available to take advantage of the cloud's ability to scale while also tolerating its occasional short-duration outages and shifting availability. Chris also talks about .NET Aspire and its ability to help you build .NET cloud-native applications.

What has Chris Sells been up to? Carl and Richard chat with Chris Sells, the guest on episode 10 back in 2002, about how his career continues to evolve. Chris talks about working at Google on Flutter, the mobile dev stack - before departing for Meta to work on the tooling for augmented reality. The conversation digs into how AR appears to be the logical evolution of mobile but has been completely overwhelmed by artificial intelligence. Chris has left Meta to work on AI technologies and sees huge potential in making better applications than ever before!

How do you make your own copilot? Carl and Richard talk to Prashant Bhoyar about his work with Copilot Studio and Azure AI Studio. Prashant describes how Copilot Studio lives in the Power Platform space while Azure AI Studio is more related to Visual Studio, in that it is a tool for developers of AI technology. Anything built in Azure AI Studio can be surfaced in Copilot Studio - another kind of fusion development! Lots of conversation about what works well and what is difficult with these tools, and how to avoid some critical mistakes!

Ready for a chat with the creator of Node? Carl and Richard talk to Ryan Dahl about his work creating NodeJS in 2009 and how he moved on after a few years, leading to the creation of Deno, an opinionated approach to building web applications. Ryan talks about the challenges of simplifying web development by combining all the important things into a single set of tools—saving you the effort of assembling those things yourself. The conversation also digs into how web development has evolved and one of Ryan's current efforts - convincing Oracle to surrender the JavaScript trademark to the world!

What's the latest with Playwright? Carl and Richard talk to Debbie O'Brien about her ongoing work with Playwright, Microsoft's open-source testing framework for web applications. While it is focused on web applications, you can write your tests in various languages, including .NET! Debbie talks about the new Playwright Testing service, which operates in Azure, so you don't have to stand up with your testing infrastructure - pay for what you use. The conversation ranges over the various features and challenges in testing that Playwright addresses. Now get out there and write some tests - your applications will be better for it!

How simple can you make software development? Carl and Richard talk to Mark Rendle about his focus on simplicity in building software - as simple as possible. Mark talks about the tendency of developers, sometimes through no fault of their own, to use what is new and cool in development, regardless of how practical or necessary it actually is. The conversation digs into the ongoing battle around cloud-native development using technologies like Kubernetes. You can be cloud native with more straightforward approaches! The same applies to web frameworks - there are lots of choices. Build as little as necessary!

How does good design pay off in software? Carl and Richard talk to Billy Hollis about his work designing software, both from a user interaction perspective and application architecture. Billy talks about saving time and money by working hard on design to get a clearer picture of what stakeholders want—because code rework is always more expensive! The conversation also digs into the institutional knowledge walking out of many companies through employees retiring—and how much work that is going to generate over the next few years to modernize!

Can you do mob programming remotely? Carl and Richard talk to Ulrika Malmgren about mob, or team programming - where three to five developers work together on the same problem, rotating keyboard control and collaborating to write the best possible code. Modern tools like Teams and Zoom make it easy to do the same programming style with everyone remotely! Ulrika talks about how team programming becomes the standard approach to development - as opposed to solo programming, where everyone works separately and then has to spend time sharing what they've done! Good team programming results in higher-quality code in less time - and more happiness!

What can machine learning do for geospatial data? Carl and Richard talk to Malte Loller-Anderson and Mathilde Ørstavik about their work at Norkart, using aerial imagery to build detailed maps around Norway. Mathilde dives into the critical role of machine learning - identifying buildings in images. Usually done by hand with each new image, Norkart has a machine learning model that automates the process trained on previous vector maps of buildings. But there are many things that look like buildings in Norway, including patches of snow, mountains, and even shapes under water. Malte also discusses how Norkart has decided to train in-house with nVidia L40 processors rather than in the cloud - the hardware is used 24 hours a day since some models can take weeks to train! There are many interesting ideas about geospatial data and machine learning from people who have been doing it for years.

What do Domain-Driven Design and event sourcing have to do with each other? Everything! Carl and Richard chat with Anita Kvamme about her experiences applying DDD, and specifically event storming, to developing applications using event sourcing. Anita talks about building applications that have many sources of events—from users and elsewhere—and needing to manage that complexity without slowing down development. Event sourcing also means keeping a source of the truth - all events leading up to a practical business benefit. And that can be hugely helpful in analytics as well!

How can a low-code solution help you deliver a .NET app? Carl and Richard talk with Serge Sarafudinov about his Xomega project. Serge describes how Xomega uses models and templates to generate .NET code for applications for Blazor clients, WPF, and even ASP.NET Forms and TypeScript! The conversation also digs into rehabilitating existing .NET applications where new features can be added with Xomega, and then gradually convert the existing application into the model approach - and then you can change out the client if you like! There are free and paid versions of Xomega; take it out for a spin and see if you can't deliver solutions faster!

How do you manage APIs to GenAI, and how can GenAI help with API management? Carl and Richard chat with Andrei Kamenev about the latest features coming to Azure API Management. On the one hand, there are Copilot tools to help craft and understand APIM policies, which can get very complex. Then, there is the provisioning of access to GenAI-related APIs like the Azure OpenAI service, which utilize tokens - and those tokens mean money, so they need to be controlled. The GenAI Gateway provides the ability to rate-limit token issuing and all the other capabilities you expect from APIM. Prompt caching is in preview and can decrease the cost of repeated use of the same prompts. Many of the features are new, and more are coming!

How can .NET Aspire help you get into containers? Carl and Richard talk with Jiachen Jiang about her experiences working with .NET Aspire. Jiachen talks about the power of .NET Aspire to help lead developers to utilize cloud native architecture efficiently. A key part of the equation is containers, and Jiachen talks about how relatively rare containerized .NET apps are - because in many cases, it doesn't add anything but complexity. But as .NET applications need to scale in the cloud, containers become important, and .NET Aspire helps you to take advantage of containers while adding all the cloud-native features you'll value, like great telemetry, orchestration, and discovery!

What if you want to build your own copilot? Carl and Richard talk to Vishwas Lele about his new startup, which is focused on using Azure OpenAI tools to help automate the government RFP writing process. Vishwas discusses the complexities of proposal writing, how specific and complex rules exist for each part of the proposal, and the challenge of getting the software to do an excellent job on the draft. The conversation digs into the domain expertise needed for the technologies and the proposal writing itself - like all good software, it requires domain experts. But when done right, this is hugely valuable software!

What are the basics of building a decent user interface on a web page? Carl and Richard talk to Hilary Stohs-Krause about her experience helping folks build websites - you don't have to be a designer to make something useable! Hilary talks about steering clear of more complex UX libraries unless you know the site owner prefers them. Keeping things simple and consistent is best! The conversation also digs into accessibility and how accessibility needs are a great guide to a decent basic design - making a site that can help everyone understand the pages you've built a great path to a very useable website.

What's happening with WPF? Carl and Richard talk to Joseph Finney about the news from Build about WPF - it's back, baby! But did it ever go away? Joe talks about how WPF was made open source in 2018 and how minimal development was done there - enough so that the community started building frameworks to support it, including WPFUI and ModernWPF. But at Build, Microsoft announced a new focus on WPF, including creating support for a Windows 11 theme - with a line of code, you can make your WPF app look like a Windows 11 app. Where does this leave WinApp SDK? What about migrations? There's lots to talk about!

Multi-modal is here and ready to use! Carl and Richard talk to Veronika Kolesnikova about what she has seen in the latest OpenAI model. Multi-modal refers to GPT-4o's ability to work with text, audio, images, and more and respond in kind! Veronika talks about tackling interesting visual problems with GPT-4o - like summarizing graphs or creating new data visualizations. The conversation digs into some announcements around Build, including the new security features in AI Studio and Windows Recall in the new Copilot+ PC devices. Things are moving quickly!

CosmosDB makes ChatGPT fast! While at Build in Seattle, Carl and Richard chatted with Mark Brown about CosmosDB's role in AI. Mark talks about how ChatGPT switched over to CosmosDB early on - when the number of users started to climb, database performance became essential, and CosmosDB was there. Today, many AI-centric CosmosDB features exist, like vector storage, indexing, and search! The conversation also digs into the impact of the large language model on development - things are different now!

What's up with MAUI and Blazor? Carl and Richard chat with Beth Massi about the latest MAUI, including the new webview available on GitHub that lets you embed an existing web page into your MAUI app. Beth talks about making apps the way you want to - with a mobile, web, or desktop focus - or making them all! Mixing Blazor and MAUI means you can steer clear of XAML if you prefer. There's no right way to build your clients, and MAUI gives you many choices!

GitHub is about so much more than source control! While at Build, Carl and Richard chatted with Damian Brady about all the great things coming out of GitHub over the past few years, including Copilot and now Copilot Workspaces. The conversation digs into how large language models are changing how you write code and some idea of what things could be like in the future. Damian also digs into the more enterprise-centric features like Software Bill of Materials and effective sponsorship of projects. GitHub is the locus of development for many companies, and the tooling continues to expand to make things easier!

Chatting with the leaders of C#! While at Build in Seattle, Carl and Richard sat down with Mads Torgersen and Dustin Campbell to discuss how C# continues evolving into version 13! With new versions coming every year, Mads talks about how complex features can be developed over several versions of the language - while also being able to get feedback from regular developers. So, what comes next for C#? Have a listen!

It's episode 1900! While at Build, Carl and Richard recorded a milestone episode with Scott Hanselman. Scott talks about his goals in the later stages of his career, the ideas and origins of all the podcasts, and what is important to him today. In the second half, Carl pulls out a quiz show for Scott with quotes from shows going back 20 years! Lots of great stories of different conferences, podcasts, and other events - and the things learned along the way. Thanks for listening!